should I start bushy asap?

cbdfan

New member
I'm going to try that method.It makes sense to keep plants small but increase number of plants.I went few and big but I had to cut buds as they were ready,then wait for next layer to ripen.It messed up my feeding for lowers.
A question on using coir as a medium.

Do you control pH of coir as a medium with lime and sulpher like you do with soil or is coirs pH as a medium controlled from ph of feedings and waterings?

I'll keep you posted.
 

mstam

New member
You're promoting someone buy feminized white widow seeds from royal queen in Shanti's forums. That's cold blooded man.
I am Dutch and I believe the origins of Mr Nice as well, and Serious Seeds is Dutch, just like Royal Queen Seeds. In my grow journal I also have a Serious Seeds AK47 and haven't seen any complains. http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/critical-skunk/10316-critical-skunk-grow-journal-5.html

cbdfan is obviously a starting grower and should indeed better have gone to a different forum but that's not what happened for whatever reason. Let's help him because if he is successful next time he might buy regular seeds from Mr Nice. He'll better off w/ femized seeds for now not to be found in Mr Nice's collection.

If there's any objection of a moderator I'll be glad to hear it and we move this thread to an other forum.
 
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mstam

New member
Do you control pH of coir as a medium with lime and sulpher like you do with soil or is coirs pH as a medium controlled from ph of feedings and waterings?
When using nutrients of AN you don't need to worry about the pH. For waterings w/o nutrients you use nitric acid up until the second week of flowering, then phosphoric acid. But you can also use phosphoric acid from the start to simplify things which doesn't make a big difference. Lime is not stable enough to lower the pH because it will react instantly w/ the other chemicals and pH adjustments will be undone within a day.
 
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fxginbcn

Moderator
Royal Queen Seeds is no friendly colleague of ours. We at one point had an agreement to produce CBD seeds for them, but shady business practices caused Shanti to distance himself and shut down any relationship with RQS.

In the opinion of MNS, RQS is not to be trusted.
Please remove any links to their site. For the good of membership here.

Thanks in advance.

Oh, also, for plant numbers, i personally recommend no more than 3-4 plants per m2 for haze hybrids, with a week -10 days veg time max.... keep bulbs up higher than normal.
For tips on haze ask the haze king Yosemite Sam.
Good luck and bless up
 

fxginbcn

Moderator
Thank you kindly Sr. Mstam

And yes a BW or a critical mass or skunk is a great place to begin. Maybe a CBD CREW shark shock or cbd shit or cbd nordle for example, as he is a fan of cbd.

mstam hit me up if you're ever in bcn. We can blaze one down.

Bless
 

cbdfan

New member
Thanks for the help.

I have ph up and down,Im assuming its fine to use if its needed on coir.

There's a big bud for coco now and there's a special you get a 4th bottle for free when you buy 3 bottles.

Is there any other nute I might need other than sensi a and b and big bud?
 

mstam

New member
Thanks for the help.
Is there any other nute I might need other than sensi a and b and big bud?
Just for this grow 500ml bottles Sensi Grow a/b and 1 liter bottles Sensi Bloom and a 250ml bottle Big Bud is sufficient. You can of course buy bigger bottles for your next grow but you might want to try different nutrients next time.

There are so many other nutrients, boosters, additives, etc and the manufacturers of course all claim they will give you extra yield but at the end it's all about the right amounts N-P-K and some basic elements. For your next grow you could add an extra product to enhance taste for example or a root stimulator but I wouldn't worry about that at all at this moment. And you can reuse the coco mix to up to a year so next grow you will need enzymes to get rid of dead root material. If this grow works out fine for you I recommend using nutrients of Bio Nova because they are mostly organic and give you the best taste and smell of all the others. But please, again, don't worry about that for now.

And there's some confusion here about 16 plants/m2. This of course only works fine with medium-sized not too bushy plants which covers like 80% of all the different genetics on the market. White/Black Widow, Bubble Gum, Skunk, CBD etc all work fine. Find yourself 20 high quality feminized seeds. You can send me a private message if you need help and I can adjust the feeding chart if necessary.
 

PrimalHaze

New member
I have no problems with being Dutch, my point is that Shantibaba is credited with the creation of White Widow. This is his forum, Shantibaba sells the original seeds here. Royal queen is selling rip-offs.

I am Dutch and I believe the origins of Mr Nice as well, and Serious Seeds is Dutch, just like Royal Queen Seeds. In my grow journal I also have a Serious Seeds AK47 and haven't seen any complains. http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/critical-skunk/10316-critical-skunk-grow-journal-5.html

cbdfan is obviously a starting grower and should indeed better have gone to a different forum but that's not what happened for whatever reason. Let's help him because if he is successful next time he might buy regular seeds from Mr Nice. He'll better off w/ femized seeds for now not to be found in Mr Nice's collection.

If there's any objection of a moderator I'll be glad to hear it and we move this thread to an other forum.
 

mstam

New member
I have no problems with being Dutch
Happy to hear that :)

my point is that Shantibaba is credited with the creation of White Widow. This is his forum, Shantibaba sells the original seeds here. Royal queen is selling rip-offs.
Does someone of a befriended company sell a feminized version? Can be interesting for cbdfan.
 

Bubbleblower

New member
It would certainly be nice if Sam chimed in.

Rqs isn't even a breeder and has a very poor reputation in the Netherlands.
You can google translate what the experiences are if you wish:
https://www.jointjedraaien.nl/wietforum/threads/32277-Mijn-ervaring-met-Royal-queen-Seeds
Serious or MNS don't deserve to be compared to rqs.

16 Plants per m2 is the standard for commercial grows from cuttings and works great.
Plants from seeds get bigger though and this grow is not commercial.
As Bubble Gum blower and grower I can tell you 4 BG's from seed per square meter works great too.
One may be better as a grower, but the other is definitely better as a blower (= Dutch for smoker of cannabis and/or hash).

Personally I use a much longer vegging time and hang the bulbs closer, but I know very little about growing indoors.
One of the ways I cope with that is by using big 65l (17gal) containers with organic soil (some Allmix) and feeding very little if at all. For me growing in coco seems too much of a challenge but I am also lucky good soil isn't ridiculously expensive around here.

What I try to do most of all is as little as possible so at least the plants have stability.
I don't know how to fix any problems so they must and I try not to interfere with that.
It's an idiot proof system :)

A nice strain for you based on it's Hawaiian origin could be Spice.
May be you want to use less nutrients as well, because some actually increase THC at the expense of CBD.
THC helps against pain, but too much of it can have the opposite effect and cause anxiety too.
 
Hi cbdfan. Here's my take on your situation.

I don't think you can fit 16x10" pots in a 1msq area. If so, it would be pretty tight and you'll end up with bud squashing up against the walls risking mould. There won't be any room to place a dehuey and you would have to be careful how you place your fan.

Growing 4 plants in 12" pots on the other hand is the way I'd go. Much easier to water 4 plants than 16. LST 4 plants asap, bushing them out asap, top if or when needed and you'll be laughing.

The strains you got and the crit skunk are very good choices. Seeing as you're a new grower in a small space I'd stay away from hazes for now. Fast finishing indicas and skunk plants are fine. I'd stay away from fem beans too. No need to buy anymore beans. You got enough strains to work with atm.

Get yourself familiar with lst and yeah, as the title of your thread suggests, BUSH OUT THEM GALS ;)
 

mstam

New member
Hi cbdfan. Here's my take on your situation.

I don't think you can fit 16x10" pots in a 1msq area. If so, it would be pretty tight and you'll end up with bud squashing up against the walls risking mould. There won't be any room to place a dehuey and you would have to be careful how you place your fan.
If he likes to take that route then 9 18 liter pots fit the bill better. I have both here and the 18 liters measure 26.3x26.3cm. 3x26.3 = 78.9 so 10.5cm left at the edges. The 11 liter pots measure 23.5cm. 23.5x4 = 94cm so 3cm left at the edges.

The downside of the 18 liters is that you will need to top and veg the plants longer in order to fill the grow room up nicely and not letting them grow too tall which makes it more difficult for him.

The downside of the 11 liter pots is indeed that if you have a tall strain or you veg them too long it's going to be too full. But most strains vegged from seed for 14 days won't grow taller than 60cm which will work out perfectly. A White Widow goes straight up w/ very short side branches. I've grown 36/m2 from seeds w/o any issues.

And if top feeding is an issue he can also feed from the bottom. Once the plants matured he needs to over feed them anyway in order to create a pool on the floor so he can more or less "throw" a bucket in. I've watered 350 plants under 24 lamps and in 11 liter pots 16/m2 w/o issues. 600 liters every 2 to 3 days. Just throw the hose in and turn on the pump :)

My next grow in my 90x90 tent will be in 18 liter pots, 9 total, w/ an original AK47 topped w/ 4 main stems. 16 11 liter pots don't fit and the next best size for 16 plants is 7 liters which is too small for the AK. If I had a 100x100 cm tent I would do 16 11 liter pots from clone w/ 3 days of veg only and they'll grow into nice 60-70cm plants yielding easily over 500 grams under a 600W lamp.

I added a photo of the AK47 in an 11 liter pot. 4 in a 60x60cm tent, topped w/ 4 branches. No space-related issues at all.
 

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Nice plant. Looks like you topped and never done any lst?

Filling out a 1msq canopy in veg takes me about 3 or 4 weeks under a small 250w bulb. Great for perpetual grow. I often have to prune. And I still have difficulty in placing the fan. Here are 4 plants in 9 litre pots. Short and bushy...


Watering the back plants was a bitch. Imagine if there were 9 or 16 plants? Very difficult if watering by hand. High plant numbers don't always equate to more yield. Especially in small spaces. Neighbouring plants will "suffocate" and each plant will receive less/different amounts of light. Imagine if 16 people was squashed into a tiny bathroom? With four plants you can move them around/rotate them to further manipulate the light.

You're gonna do 9 plants in a 90x90 tent? Cant wait to see this :)
 
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mstam

New member
Correct, no lst. In a friend's home who doesn't have experience, only followed my feeding chart. I wouldn't do lst myself either, I would trim the side branches in order to control the length of the main branches which is what I am going to do w/ the AK47's so all branches level out at the same height.

http://homegrowsystems.com/critical-skunk/2014-11-09.jpg
8 massive Critical Skunks and one AK47 in a 90x90 tent w/o issues, see my grow journal. No trimming at all. If you read it my recommendation for this plant is lamps fixed edge pot to center bulb at 130-150cm, up until end of second week flower half of lights off, 16/m2.

I never spend time on trimming anything, just throw them in, usually 16/m2 and veg the clones for a few days only. In the end there's very little difference. A Haze I top first and then start flowering them immediately.

The more plants you can grow in an area and are able to control the height of the faster they are done and the better the yield will be. Most commercial growers prefer 16/m2 because this requires little to none time for vegging but the trick is to keep them below 80cm in height, 60cm preferred. Most strains do fine but the Critical Skunk grows too fast and therefore 50% light the first 2 weeks of flower. Could also do 9/m2 but then light doesn't penetrate well enough to the flowers at the bottom.

And you can bottom feed your plants, make sure your tent is sealed well. Max 10 liters every 2 days per square meter for most strains. Simply empty a bucket :)
 
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...http://homegrowsystems.com/critical-skunk/2014-11-09.jpg
8 massive Critical Skunks and one AK47 in a 90x90 tent w/o issues, see my grow journal...
I wouldn't exactly call them plants "massive". To get your plants massive you got to veg them.

You grow 9 colas with 9 plants and I grow 20+ colas with 4 plants. I've grown 20+ colas with just 2 plants and about 16 colas with just one plant (she was massive). It's like they say, many ways to skin a cat.

I'm not too keen on just throwing buckets of water on the floor of the tent either for so many reasons. Electrics on the floor just outside the tent. Is it really water proof enough? Hygiene, humidity/mould.

I see you've just thrown them in flower. Looking forward to seeing them in 5 or 6 weeks time. And I rate your grow journal too :)
 

mstam

New member
I'm not too keen on just throwing buckets of water on the floor of the tent either for so many reasons. Electrics on the floor just outside the tent. Is it really water proof enough? Hygiene, humidity/mould.

I see you've just thrown them in flower. Looking forward to seeing them in 5 or 6 weeks time. And I rate your grow journal too :)
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/critical-skunk/10316-critical-skunk-grow-journal-5.html
Already done several weeks ago.

You can use pond foil on the floor, the stuff you use in the garden.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Teichbau2-Teichfolie.JPG
 

cbdfan

New member
What I have done was cut layers of buds as they turn amber.
It works but by the time I flush and start feeding again,not only do I waste time,nutes,and electricity,plants miss out on feedings.


I just relocated and I'm making adjustments on humidity, temp and venting.

I got my medihaze in 40-40-20 soil,coir perlite under leds.I'll use manifolding and maybe go for 8-16 tops each.

I'm still trying to decide on a female strain to use.I've had great luck with Mazar and widows but I prefer more indica or mainly.

Is there any cbd strains with 5-8% cbd and 13-18% THC?
 

mstam

New member
What I have done was cut layers of buds as they turn amber.
It works but by the time I flush and start feeding again,not only do I waste time,nutes,and electricity,plants miss out on feedings.


I just relocated and I'm making adjustments on humidity, temp and venting.

I got my medihaze in 40-40-20 soil,coir perlite under leds.I'll use manifolding and maybe go for 8-16 tops each.

I'm still trying to decide on a female strain to use.I've had great luck with Mazar and widows but I prefer more indica or mainly.

Is there any cbd strains with 5-8% cbd and 13-18% THC?
We can talk about strains here but links to sites that sell them in a private message please. I read yours and unless you want to make a selection for mother plants I wouldn't bother using regular seeds for indoor grows.

You mention you have 9.5" pots laying around, correct? These are 11 liters and the ones you need for 16/m2.

How are you going to construct your grow room? A 3' tent w/ 600W light would work out fine. I can make you a list of what you need.

http://www.leafscience.com/2014/10/15/highest-cbd-strains/
Google is your friend :)

Plants rich in cbd are usually 100% Indica meaning short plants w/ short flower periods which is a good thing. Also when you want a high cbd percentage simply let your plants sit longer when they are done and monitor the color of the trichomes. Wait until most changed color from white to amber.
 
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PlantManBee

Well-known member
Also when you want a high cbd percentage simply let your plants sit longer when they are done and monitor the color of the trichomes. Wait until most changed color from white to amber.
Are you sure you aren't confusing CBD with CBN?
 
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