questions for Nevil on afghani and kush lines (the other grail!)

I have smoked more neville's haze than most and personally think if you just culled out some of the more "jungle weed" pheno's it could already be called "Grail". Never puffed anything close in over 20 years! Haze is great from blowing out the pipes now and then but for me I still go for the heavy indicas most times. After much trial I have come to the conclusion that love em or hate em sensi seeds has the shit when it comes to pure afghani's.. but trace the lineage and most lead back to the Seed Bank days.. lots of ortega's, hash plant, NL1, maple leaf indica's... which brings me to my questions for nevil:

Which do you consider the best quality pure indica line you have worked with?

What ever happened to your mazar-i-sharif selection from your Peshawar trip? Offered in 85 and then disappeared off the map from what I can tell.

Any background on the Ortega and Maple Leaf Indica lines? Are they related?

Maple Leaf Indica is the highest quality (in my taste) line I have tried, does Mr Nice offer anything from similar lineage?

More than enough cannabis racism on the net... let's not forget about the afghani's and paki's!! I know there are other's still searching for the afghan grail....
Does your opinion about the Maple leaf indica come from recent purchases from sensi or is that based on older purchases of stock you cant get anymore when you buy their seeds???I have heard alot of negative feedback on sensi but I don't necessarily believe any or all of it because I know how these things go in this business.


I would love to hear some info on Nev's Afi/Paki lines. Ortega being of high interest to me at the moment. I would also like to hear about what Afghan lines where used to make your Mr Nice hybrid strains like Afghan Haze, Afghan Skunk, and the Afi Shani used in Med Man.
I am sure shanti and neville are confident enough with their accomplishments and strains that they are not to concerned about someone giving information about another seed company or a particular strain that someone thinks is really good.The only time it is a problem is if its over at icmag and gypsy does not sale the strain you are talking about or he can't make a buck off of it then it will be erased over there!


New member
id like to know all about the G13, just to many storys concerning that girl, now your back nev id like to here her story from you, and i bet im not the only one
Climb aboard the HinduKushExpress boys.. hopefully nevil takes the conductors seat soon. Here are the main dutch indica building blocks as I can tell (hopefully this provides a background to work from):

Afghani#1 - originally a skunkman ibl from mazar plateau landraces collected from sam in 73 and selected in cali

Hindu Kush - skunkman ibl selected more from the foothills closer to Kabul same time period for collection and selection

Hash Plant - female cutting from US northwest imported by nevil. Unreleased ibl made later either by nevil or sensi (likely NL1 used as original male). Rob Clarke claims it has lebanese in it but this is one of the few times I think RCC is on the wrong boat... pure afghan imo.

G13 - I won't even go there... came over as a clone. Personally I find it very strong but without character, not a fan.

NL series - Originally a Pacific Northwest ibl (pre seedbank) supposedly came to Nevil in holland as numbered cuttings, others argue Rob Clarke gave it to nevil in the form of seeds. NL1, NL2 and NL5 cuts unquestionably all are likely unequalled in the roles they have played in many many hybrids since there release.

Hawaiian Indica - murky background but a great under appreciated strain imo. Grey Area's famous Grey Mist is based on this (or is this)... one of the few high quality indica's consistently available in the coffee shops in the dam imo.

Garlic Bud - never tried this one.. it is on the list. supposedly came over from northwest. Not sure if it is a pure afghani or a mexi/afi cross as dj short has speculated.

Ortega - this is the one that carries the most mystery with it. I originally saw it in an old SSSC catalogue I can no longer find that said it came from retired commercial growers in N.Cali in the description. I dont' remember ever seeing this listed by nevil but it seems likely he had the original stock as many of sensi seeds varieties are based on different lines of this; supposedly Black domina, Marlie's Collie, First Girl, MLI and possibly more that i am missing. Mns has released a version, so this would also make sense that nevil is the original holder.. Jim Dankness posted on this site that Ed Rosenthal told him ortega was originally from the bay area. Most recent notable fame was in Legends Ultimate Indica which was a previously unreleased ortega clone (from Ed R) crossed unfortunately with sweet tooth which over powered most of the pheno's

Early Girl - more of an outdoor line, never heard alot of great reports except that it is early outdoor. It was a seedline.

A few other possible dutch introductions:

Maple Leaf Wilson collection - un(western)selected afghani landrace from Cali offered via the seedbank in "breeder packs" of 50.

Ben Dronkers seed trip - supposedly ben made a couple of seed acquisition trips into afghanistan at some point.

Nevil seed trip - I believe to peshawar, resulting mazar-i-sharif line released in 85. S.Skunkman claims disbanded due to low potency...

Not sure if I missed any other dutch indica building blocks.

I still remember the day I (re)discovered afghani; spring equinox Grateful Dead show in Colombus Ohio early 90's. One of the guys from our crew brought down a big bag of NL/Hashplant, I didn't make any notice of it until i hit the chillum a few times.... instantly cut through all the tweaky mexican's, thai's, jamaican and the odd batch of extra tweaky skunk#1 we had been living on for years and took me on a train ride back to the eighties before all the high end affi/paki hash loads dried up.... heavy, greasy, hashy indica...home!
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Grover Sativa

New member
the G13 was bred by Spirituallyenhanced and stolen by everyone from him. It makes him sad and angry.

He is also the original breeder of Northern Lights, The Haze, Skunk, apples and corn.

Or so he claims.


Active member
the G13 was bred by Spirituallyenhanced and stolen by everyone from him. It makes him sad and angry.

He is also the original breeder of Northern Lights, The Haze, Skunk, apples and corn.

Or so he claims.

i am so glad u let everyone know that grover but you forgot he also breed bull rider as well. i also think he may of been the original breeder of all afghan, and kush lines as well grover just to name a few. he hasn't confirmed this yet but only he has the knowledge to make such lines. if you have his seeds dont thing you can fool him he knows what lies beneath that hard shell. he is on another level like god grover yes your heard right he on another level from us mortal man. dont dare ask him about his strain hes already learned mortal men only want to steal his work for themselves. :rolleyes:


great thread

i too love the affie/ hashplants myself

ive mentioned before how a high quality hashplant in seedform is needed,id lov too see somthin from mns

if i recall nev has mentioned g13xhp as a possibility of comin back



"Originally Posted by Grover Sativa View Post
the G13 was bred by Spirituallyenhanced and stolen by everyone from him. It makes him sad and angry.

He is also the original breeder of Northern Lights, The Haze, Skunk, apples and corn. breeder of all afghan, and kush lines as well grover just to name a few

he is on another level like god grover yes your heard right he on another level from us mortal man."

This is a boast that even Sam will have trouble surpassing. Who is this sad, angry breeder of everything?
I really wanna know what the old oakland indica strain is that was sold in the SSSC catalog thru the 80's.My dad worked that strain and it was earlier here than shanti and nevilles Big bud and massive!I have searched high and low for it to no avail!!


New member
It me how breed God at my image and he is MADGOD

the G13 was bred by Spirituallyenhanced and stolen by everyone from him. It makes him sad and angry.

He is also the original breeder of Northern Lights, The Haze, Skunk, apples and corn.

But anyway I guest he still have the originals parent!

Come on the forum Sam there you have serious competition!
I think yours ass is on fire now come on and play!

Spirituallyenhanced will kick yours ass, it most be you how stolen his work!

Who is this sad, angry breeder of everything

He's mad and sad watch out Sam! There a madman after you!

PM me Spirituallyenhanced we will work together nice pics.
What is the year you take theses pictures! what camera did you use they look nice! LOL!

Good one Grover!

Grover Sativa

New member

This is a boast that even Sam will have trouble surpassing. Who is this sad, angry breeder of everything?

He's a crazy guy who's going to be even sadder and angrier when he realises I've been teasing him! :D

I hope he takes my tomfoolery with the good humour, which it was intended...(DHYB - I feel a storm a'comin...)

Hey, Nev - maybe you could get tips for The Grail from him...OK, maybe not.


New member
for some reason i thought spirituallyenhanced was a female?

but back to mr. ortega seeker, the indica doms you seek and vouch that sensi seeds is distributing; is your info current events from recently bought gear? the reason i ask is my recent purchases of sensi seed gear resulted in beans that would not germ or those packs that did germ grew plants of dubious quality.

and btw, we do talk about other seed banks here and especially ones such as sensi seeds. at one time, they carried the flag for all canna seed breeders but those days passed when the old man retired and the sensi seeds of today is but a shadow of its former self. the boys do not share the love of the plant with their dad and are more interested in hanging around the sensi resort in thailand. in fact mr. ortega seeker, you could well be online with the next one to carry the banner, mr. nice. peace-biteme
bite me - you are misreading my post or just as likely I am miscommunicating it. The only sensi strain I will entirely vouch for (at least up until 2009) is Maple Leaf Indica. My comment that they have the pure indica goods was based more on the sad fact that they are one of the few companies that still stock a fair amount of what I consider pure afghani's that it can at least be said they actually (at least at one time) had the real deal that they claim to. The same cannot be said for most others; even from breeders I highly respect like Cannabiogen.. the uzbek lines they use came from reeferman...maybe they came from uzbekistan OR maybe they are just another made up story just like the many other hack jobs he sells as originals which are really just bottlenecked selections from the dutch companies. Which brings me to the real reason I originally said I did not want to talk about other seed companies on the mns forum.. sensi threads always end up being a bunch of newbies (not including you in this statement btw) talking out of their asses about stuff they could not possibly know i.e. that they have lost original genetics and how bad the germ rates are and how crappy the pheno's were. meanwhile their "proof" is some closet grow where they are trying to grow indicas at 100F with all the tips burnt out from too much N and rams horned from too much P plus stretched to hell like a sativa from trying to cool themselves off.. dense buds in 100F are like wearing a fur coat in summer, we don't wear fur coats cannabis stretches like shit to cool off.

Anyway I don't claim to know what is up with sensi good or bad other than what I have posted above. I agree with your sentiments and think they have made some extremely bad moves since the sons took over. The "museum and grow room" in the dam is embarrassing.

Hope no offense is taken biteme.. it was not intended if so. I have read your posts elsewhere and know you are no newbie!
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Black Domina was a 4 way indica hybrid I made for Sensi. I was going for big seeds/bracts with large resin globules on stalked glands. People seemed to want bigger yields, so I substited Garlic bud for one of the indicas. I don't know what has been happening at Sensi since then.
I liked the version with the big seeds and large stalked glands.

I also had another indica which would "shed" its resin at the drop of a hat. I was going to cross that into the Black Domina. You can see where I was going with this!

Ah well, it never happened and such is life.

Don't fret, it's still in the land of what dreams may come!
finally... the conductor takes the train!!

According to big book of buds (I believe this was the source anyways); Black Domina is Afghani 1 x Ortega mother crossed with a male Hash plant X Northern Lights 1. Was this your original cross?

ps. the one that "sheds it's resin at the drop of a hat" sure sounds like how Ed R describes the hash plant clone.


I don't know what is in the Big Book of Buds, but that's not it (maybe Sam paid the writer to say that there was Afghani#1 in it)
I ruthlessly tracked down everything in my collection that had A#1 in it and culled it. I hate that stuff. A classic case of a line gone sour.
lol not a big fan of A#1 either... go figure that a guy that claims indica is for "blue collar" people with no education can't breed a good indica! I have a better education (and smaller ego) than monsanto sam and think maybe all those speedy sat's are what cause his delusions of grandeur. Funny how the internet all think he is god and anyone that has ever known him in real life thinks he is a pompous ass!

maple leaf indica according to Ed R (same book) is: Female Ortega15 x Sam afghan skunk X male Skunk 18.5. Any idea if this is correct?

You still have not told us what you found the most promising pure afghan line was??