crazyhorse73
Well-known member
I don't have a lot to contribute here.
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Peoples thoughts on the Window Of Harvest?
- Thread starter crazyhorse73
- Start date
Islandgrower
2021 COE Winner
Ime I look for all cloudy with some amber depending on the effect wanted. More amber = more couchlock/sleep. Used to hear to go by pistils however some strains keep putting out pistils late in flower so not so accurate to go by them. As far as the terpenes they change during the grow as they keep evolving until ready for harvest. Harvest with clear trichs will get you high but will be short-lived, don't want to harvest too early.
My 2 cents
crazyhorse73
Well-known member
Good one Islandgrower. That gets the ball rolling.
politoed
Member
i agree with your statement that trichomes dont always relate to peak smell etc.
i have found its best to know the strain you are working with. and to use a combination of all the criterea.
im looking at trichs (hoping for mostly cloudy), the fade on the fan leaves, pistils, smell, look. are the nuggets still growing fatter?
i made the mistake of only looking at trichs on a big autoflower grow. i ended up letting them go like 3 weeks too long because of this. i was left with weed that definitely got you high, however the smell and taste were gone completely. not an enjoyable experience IMO. i was stuck smoking mediocre weed for months. but hey, at least my trichs were 10% amber, 80% cloudy and 10% clear right?
i wonder if hunting a pheno that peaks in terms of trich development AND terpenes at the same time is the move. it seems some stuff the terps disappear before its ripe like you said.
at the end of the day we grow this to smoke it, not to look at it. smoking it at its peak is important and that may look different for each plant and each person.
i have found its best to know the strain you are working with. and to use a combination of all the criterea.
im looking at trichs (hoping for mostly cloudy), the fade on the fan leaves, pistils, smell, look. are the nuggets still growing fatter?
i made the mistake of only looking at trichs on a big autoflower grow. i ended up letting them go like 3 weeks too long because of this. i was left with weed that definitely got you high, however the smell and taste were gone completely. not an enjoyable experience IMO. i was stuck smoking mediocre weed for months. but hey, at least my trichs were 10% amber, 80% cloudy and 10% clear right?
i wonder if hunting a pheno that peaks in terms of trich development AND terpenes at the same time is the move. it seems some stuff the terps disappear before its ripe like you said.
at the end of the day we grow this to smoke it, not to look at it. smoking it at its peak is important and that may look different for each plant and each person.
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Fated
Well-known member
from my experience *most people can tell 
when stigmas are darkening. when the plant is ripening the water leaves will begin to fade and fall away - if they do not it may be an indication of unnecessary fertilization (it will hide all those glorious fall colors under a heavy green) and your bud may have lots of unneeded chlorophyll in it. Nevil used to come on the forums and tell people about growing . . . after that i understood more about using my brix meter and finishing plants and curing.
when the plant is growing you want to build the sugars up in the plant - monitor the rising brix (I was growing an a.k. X med man cross) and my brix was up to 18. i thought i was bragging, but the response i got was "you will Never get all that sugar out of there and they aren't going to finish properly". let me explain, when you buy cut flowers that little package that they give has sugar and salt in it - to make the plants appear fresh and alive longer. some people even add sugars to their nutrients, and that is all well and good. but i would caution that the sugar level needs to be moderated to allow the plant to go through the "fall/autumn" season.
generally the plant matures very noticeably when not over fertilized (of course you do not want to *under fertilize, but that is not something we generally see with commercial soils - do conduct a soil test if you are unsure). the big water leaves begin to wither and fall, the stem and the plant start to display those autumn indigos and golds. The calyxes begin to mature and stigma darken. if you do not see damage or mold or disease or signs of many, many dark amber trichomes - you may allow the plant to mature until all or nearly all of the stigma darken.
as the stigma darken the trichomes on the calyxes will also (and these are the ones that matter, not the ones on the leaves: in my experience a properly finished cannabis plant does not have many large water/fan leaves remaining). each plant will have many, many calyxes with many, many trichomes . . . when people tall about "amber trichomes" they generally intend to mean a plant that is this stage. the place where nearly all the water leaves are withered, gone, and shades of indigo and gold, and nearly all of the visible calyxes have nearly completely mature stigma, and the trichomes are beginning to amber en masse. it is *those trichomes where people are talking about percentages of amber . . .
if things go wrong there may be damage or the maturation cycle could be stretched or condensed from nutrient issues . . .
the idea is synergize the grow so that all of these factors come together for your particular strain.
you will begin to notice a difference in flavor as the amount of chlorophyll from nutrients comes under control because it will also affect the needed cure time for it to break down properly. you may also want to considered the amount of water left in the plant before harvest.
additional note i was informed that girdling prevents the sugars in the growing plant from nourishing the roots and trapping it in the plant increasing cure times.
i learned so much from listening to shanti and nevil and all the great growers (and some of the not so great ones too . . . ) in the forums over the years . . .
p.s. this doesn't make me look so great, but it's funny . . . i believe the actual initial response i receive from butting into nevil's grow thread with my brix comment was . . . "what are you? a cop?" Ha Ha Ha . . . then he preceded to tell me about how i was wrong about having my sugar level so high. it was a good lesson because those plants did not want to finish and at 75 days I pulled them. i was lucky not to have mold or other issues, and the bud did not leave a nice white ash, and it did not want to stay lit in a joint . . . over fertilized.
when stigmas are darkening. when the plant is ripening the water leaves will begin to fade and fall away - if they do not it may be an indication of unnecessary fertilization (it will hide all those glorious fall colors under a heavy green) and your bud may have lots of unneeded chlorophyll in it. Nevil used to come on the forums and tell people about growing . . . after that i understood more about using my brix meter and finishing plants and curing.when the plant is growing you want to build the sugars up in the plant - monitor the rising brix (I was growing an a.k. X med man cross) and my brix was up to 18. i thought i was bragging, but the response i got was "you will Never get all that sugar out of there and they aren't going to finish properly". let me explain, when you buy cut flowers that little package that they give has sugar and salt in it - to make the plants appear fresh and alive longer. some people even add sugars to their nutrients, and that is all well and good. but i would caution that the sugar level needs to be moderated to allow the plant to go through the "fall/autumn" season.
generally the plant matures very noticeably when not over fertilized (of course you do not want to *under fertilize, but that is not something we generally see with commercial soils - do conduct a soil test if you are unsure). the big water leaves begin to wither and fall, the stem and the plant start to display those autumn indigos and golds. The calyxes begin to mature and stigma darken. if you do not see damage or mold or disease or signs of many, many dark amber trichomes - you may allow the plant to mature until all or nearly all of the stigma darken.
as the stigma darken the trichomes on the calyxes will also (and these are the ones that matter, not the ones on the leaves: in my experience a properly finished cannabis plant does not have many large water/fan leaves remaining). each plant will have many, many calyxes with many, many trichomes . . . when people tall about "amber trichomes" they generally intend to mean a plant that is this stage. the place where nearly all the water leaves are withered, gone, and shades of indigo and gold, and nearly all of the visible calyxes have nearly completely mature stigma, and the trichomes are beginning to amber en masse. it is *those trichomes where people are talking about percentages of amber . . .
if things go wrong there may be damage or the maturation cycle could be stretched or condensed from nutrient issues . . .
the idea is synergize the grow so that all of these factors come together for your particular strain.
you will begin to notice a difference in flavor as the amount of chlorophyll from nutrients comes under control because it will also affect the needed cure time for it to break down properly. you may also want to considered the amount of water left in the plant before harvest.
additional note i was informed that girdling prevents the sugars in the growing plant from nourishing the roots and trapping it in the plant increasing cure times.
i learned so much from listening to shanti and nevil and all the great growers (and some of the not so great ones too . . . ) in the forums over the years . . .
p.s. this doesn't make me look so great, but it's funny . . . i believe the actual initial response i receive from butting into nevil's grow thread with my brix comment was . . . "what are you? a cop?" Ha Ha Ha . . . then he preceded to tell me about how i was wrong about having my sugar level so high. it was a good lesson because those plants did not want to finish and at 75 days I pulled them. i was lucky not to have mold or other issues, and the bud did not leave a nice white ash, and it did not want to stay lit in a joint . . . over fertilized.
mu
Fated
Well-known member
the cannabinoids and terpenes are concentrated in the trichomes. just like with cannabis oils that we purify in bulk (and even synthetic dronabinol) the acid forms of the cannabinoids naturally degrade and we see that in the amber color - if you have seen thca crystals versus thc oil then you are seeing the difference between "cloudy" trichomes and "amber" trichomes . . . (some where i have an cannabis oil color guide for testing if i find it i may link it). the acid forms need to be decarboxylated to be psychoactive, so the longer one waits the more natural degradation.
dude, a cheap brix meter to monitor the sugar level for your strain and it can really zero in your grow . . . it really is an artform to perfect the grow for just one strain. mostly i am looking at a field of numerous plants or looking at a grow room with many, many plants. a person really needs a jewelers loop or a good camera to see the trichomes well enough to even judge tiny percentages of amber in those things. so I have to really get in there and see the trichomes on the calyxes and look at enough of them around the plant to really see where the plant is.
for years i harvested too soon . . . the advice shanti gave was "go until you think it's done . . . then wait two weeks and look again"
dude, a cheap brix meter to monitor the sugar level for your strain and it can really zero in your grow . . . it really is an artform to perfect the grow for just one strain. mostly i am looking at a field of numerous plants or looking at a grow room with many, many plants. a person really needs a jewelers loop or a good camera to see the trichomes well enough to even judge tiny percentages of amber in those things. so I have to really get in there and see the trichomes on the calyxes and look at enough of them around the plant to really see where the plant is.
for years i harvested too soon . . . the advice shanti gave was "go until you think it's done . . . then wait two weeks and look again"
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Fated
Well-known member
here is an example of me not getting it quite right . . .
i used hard water for much of this grow (it is a moving thing that falls into the category of "do as I say, not as I do") and that led to some nutrient imbalances that led to some damage.
this is Angels Breathe at 10wks. the bud in the top, left hand corner of the shot is pretty much done . . . but the bud on the right hand side could easily have gone another week . . .
really if i had the health all the way dialed in I could maybe even go 2 more weeks, but that would be pushing it.
done perfectly, all the little sugar leaves on the bud would have gone through that autumn change like the larger leaves . . . the bud would remain undamaged. the calyxes would all swell to the maximum and would retain dense mass upon drying. all the stigma would be dark amber. the trichomes would be cloudy with a very small percentage of amber. no mold, no rot, no degradation.
this is my first grow with this strain in awhile and i admittedly made some mistakes using the tap water for so long. The other pictures show
the kind of autumn colors I would like to see in the bud for this strain, and more of the damage.
i used hard water for much of this grow (it is a moving thing that falls into the category of "do as I say, not as I do") and that led to some nutrient imbalances that led to some damage.
this is Angels Breathe at 10wks. the bud in the top, left hand corner of the shot is pretty much done . . . but the bud on the right hand side could easily have gone another week . . .
really if i had the health all the way dialed in I could maybe even go 2 more weeks, but that would be pushing it.
done perfectly, all the little sugar leaves on the bud would have gone through that autumn change like the larger leaves . . . the bud would remain undamaged. the calyxes would all swell to the maximum and would retain dense mass upon drying. all the stigma would be dark amber. the trichomes would be cloudy with a very small percentage of amber. no mold, no rot, no degradation.
this is my first grow with this strain in awhile and i admittedly made some mistakes using the tap water for so long. The other pictures show
the kind of autumn colors I would like to see in the bud for this strain, and more of the damage.
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crazyhorse73
Well-known member
Thanks Longball. That photo is helpful mate.
Will put up some more photo's in a week or two when they are getting a bit closer.
Looking forward to hearing what you and others think.
I know I take them too early alot of the time so this is a valuable lesson for me.
Actually having someone looking over my shoulder is a big help and allows me to chill
instead of chewing all my fingernails off.
Peace ✌
longball
'21, '23 COE Winner
@crazyhorse73 said: "Looking forward to hearing what you and others think."
If @n2ishun checks in, pay attention to what he says. He can see more in a single picture than many can see in their lifetime. He's a cantankerous old coot but he knows his shit inside and out. He has a right tasty stash too!
If you can post up bigger and better pictures that will also help!
Longball
If @n2ishun checks in, pay attention to what he says. He can see more in a single picture than many can see in their lifetime. He's a cantankerous old coot but he knows his shit inside and out. He has a right tasty stash too!
If you can post up bigger and better pictures that will also help!
Longball
Mostly I go by experience looking at a plant.
The lower leaves will get sucked dry by the plant, turn yellow, and drop off, and this process works it's self up the plant.
Every weed plant does this as it's getting close to ripe....unless you have PH issues like the ' Jack Herer same one with a different Trainwreck beside it Day 49 flowering ' pic.
Yup, those large yellow/brown areas on the leaves are from PH issues.
Every pic you posted up there has a minimum of 2 weeks to go.
I harvest, and have harvested, all my plants by smell since the 1970s.
I can't smell yours.
There will always be a change in smell about 1 week before what I've come to recognize as the best harvest time.
You don't have to rub a stem and it should be a dramatic change....but maybe it's just something I've come to recognize and others don't.
Dunno, that's just how I do it.
This little columbian dude taught me about it way back in the day and damn me if he wasn't right.
The lower leaves will get sucked dry by the plant, turn yellow, and drop off, and this process works it's self up the plant.
Every weed plant does this as it's getting close to ripe....unless you have PH issues like the ' Jack Herer same one with a different Trainwreck beside it Day 49 flowering ' pic.
Yup, those large yellow/brown areas on the leaves are from PH issues.
Every pic you posted up there has a minimum of 2 weeks to go.
I harvest, and have harvested, all my plants by smell since the 1970s.
I can't smell yours.
There will always be a change in smell about 1 week before what I've come to recognize as the best harvest time.
You don't have to rub a stem and it should be a dramatic change....but maybe it's just something I've come to recognize and others don't.
Dunno, that's just how I do it.
This little columbian dude taught me about it way back in the day and damn me if he wasn't right.
longball
'21, '23 COE Winner
The Canon 300D is a pretty decent DSLR that should give you excellent images. Until you are familiar with the settings I would just set it to Auto Focus and let it feed. Not sure what you mean by resized to small? Is that something on the camera? For best results use a 3rd party compression program and make the picture about 1MB or 1024KB in size. That is the present size limit on the site(it's been slowly going up). Compressing a picture usually gives a better result than resizing the picture.
When you have compressed the picture to about 1024KB you can attach it to your post by clicking the 'Attach files' and 'open' the pic from your phone or pc. When it loads you have the option of thumbnail or full page. Does not matter which one because if you load the picture that way the picture will blow up to full page if you click on the thumbnail. Your pics are not doing that so not sure how you loaded them. We have all had problems loading up pics so just keep asking questions and members will keep helping until ya get it right! Lots of helpful folks on this site.
Longball
When you have compressed the picture to about 1024KB you can attach it to your post by clicking the 'Attach files' and 'open' the pic from your phone or pc. When it loads you have the option of thumbnail or full page. Does not matter which one because if you load the picture that way the picture will blow up to full page if you click on the thumbnail. Your pics are not doing that so not sure how you loaded them. We have all had problems loading up pics so just keep asking questions and members will keep helping until ya get it right! Lots of helpful folks on this site.
Longball
crazyhorse73
Well-known member
Cheers Longball, you are very generous with your time and knowledge.
I just had a word with its previous owner and have the settings adjusted a bit better now I believe.
Should be taking better photos next time.
Good to know about the size limit I was flying blind there.
I have it on the P setting now. Portrait I think that means.
I took it off RAW image and set it to best quality jpeg.
I was resizing using the program Islandgrower suggested in tools.
I am about to go and take some more now.
See if we can notice any difference in quality.
Peace ✌
longball
'21, '23 COE Winner
@crazyhorse73 - P is Program Auto Exposure. Just before the P should be like a blank rectangle - that is Full Auto - you might want that until you download the free manual pdf file. Before the 'blank rectangle' is a tiny picture of a head - that is portrait mode. Unless you use full auto you may need to manually set f-stop, aperature, shutter speed, ISO, focus, white balace, etc. You know, round up the usual suspects. If you use P will need to set a few of these things yourself. If light or distance changes between pictures then you may have to change these settings between pictures. There are advantages to Full Auto. Full Auto will take very good images like my picture above. For great pictures, manual settings are best but there is a learning curve.
Longball
Longball
longball
'21, '23 COE Winner
@crazyhorse73 Wow! World of difference! It appears your pictures are 304KB. If you up them to closer to 1000KB, the picture will contain 3x the data and look 3x better. At least that's what I say as a betting man. Go ahead and try it!
Longball
Longball
Ptree
'21, '24 COE Winner
Wow, Great advice !!
I have noticed this change too, just never happen to think about it as harvest window..
But it is the factor Iam taking big interest in, the smells evolution in plants...
- Just last weekend I found my CBD skitllez test plant had change in a smell (dramatic one) and the timing really seems good for harvesting, as it is aproaching harvest time.
Also what i did find, that my outdoor harvests where somewhat always placed on full moon (or near) full moon occasions. But it can be just coincidence. my own examples (Purple#1 / Orange Bud / Afghani #1) - so plants that actually differs in flowering longeitivity
This is a very timely thread, I’m just about to harvest and I’ve been reading carefully, I noticed a big change in the smell today, they're black widow, lights switched just under 14 weeks ago. What do you think? I can’t see any amber trichomes yet.
edit: here’s a link to an external image host that has better resolution
edit: here’s a link to an external image host that has better resolution
Attachments
Cannalicous
Well-known member
Too soon to harvest imho. She might swell up with another week... maybe even 2.