Opening up The Doors

I have a question for you growers more knowledgeable than I about early versus late-flowering males. D4 is obviously very early to flower, and I've read before that late-flowering males provide better progeny. Any feedback on this?

Hi, i think its about the strain. If you for example grow some early plant that flowers shortly, then even male should flower shortly. If you flower heavy sativa, then the right male should also flower in longer times.

My example of older cross of widow for example:

I crossed widow to faster male, and the seeds were mostly indica looking hybrids, the sativa almost got away.

...but dont take it as rule, as iam not a 100% sure...

edit: i didnt done a lot of breeds, and all of them were indicas or mostly indica hybrids -> but i always picked the male that flowered at the same time as females, or leaning to quite faster, but would probably do the oposite with sativa strains.
But definitely, i would try at least branch to polenate if the male was something special as i dont had much workspace.

nice work of yours imho...
Just stared for few whiles on your post #29


:)
 
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Thanks for stopping by, P3Ci. I appreciate the input, and it is a data point. The question about flowering speed of males is purely academic, as I have only one male from this batch and he's my boy.

Outside in the tiny pots, The Doors #4 male is starting to drop pollen all over his sisters in a slow-motion display of plant-kingdom incest porn. It's nice to observe the seed plants outside while their clones flower indoors; it makes it easy to assess which plants are going to finish early and late. They've only started to flower outside in the past week or so, and #3 and #5 are the last to start flowering and will therefore probably be the last to finish flowering. I'm guessing 16 weeks.

Meanwhile, back in the tent, the girls are stretching like crazy after two weeks of 12/12. Plant height is 24"-27", and aromas and resin are just starting to develop.

The_Doors_F15.jpg
 
i would say that in a hybrid with something like haze and NL5 and skunk, flower time of the male has little to do with anything other than flower time of that male.

it will still be a roll of the dice as to what other traits he will pass on.
ideally, he could have very haze-like traits for everything except flower time, and maybe bud density/formation.

but would you be that lucky?
if not, there will be more of the NL5 and skunk influence.
not necessarily a bad thing.
 
I have a question for you growers more knowledgeable than I about early versus late-flowering males. D4 is obviously very early to flower, and I've read before that late-flowering males provide better progeny. Any feedback on this?

Aloha braddah!
My thinking (and limited experience lol) is that it makes sense to grow the males out to better assess their abilities. While maturity is an important factor, plant structure, resin production, smell, taste, etc. are IME other considerations as they do add to the mix. It necessitates growing and comparing many males within the chosen strain to determine who is best suited for your daughter's (selected female) hand. It doubles the work and requires enormous amounts of time to do it right esp. with the sativas. At least that was the continual challenge I bumped up against. For a while I was alternating female and male grows. All in pursuit of the one lol.

That's what brought me here. Best to start with the best, mostly unaldulterated seed. Of course lately I have decided that much of what I grow and smoke from the MNS stables (staples ha), as it is, has been just fine with me. It provides variety, even within the phenotypes, for a guy who regularly gets bored smoking the same variety and maintaining the same level of high. I have really been enjoying the CBD versions of late because I don't get so wrecked that my day is a throw-away but I still am able to relieve the tension and pain. However, I continue my hobby with passion similar to my braddah Marcus because what else is there to do that is so gratifying? Great job, Marcus!

Shaka
Mu
 
~ 3 weeks

Greetings and salutations, MNS trailblazers. No pics this week; I'll post pics at four weeks when there's more to see in the flower tent. That said, it's interesting to note the differences between the seed plants, still going strong outside my office window, and The Doors girls in the tent. The Doors D3 and D5, which surround the pollen-spewing male D4 outside, have still not started shooting pistils, while the rest of the outdoor girls have. In fact, they all have F2 seeds forming, particularly on the calyxes that are right next to the mainstem. They will all stay outside until the first frost, after which I will move them back and forth inside/outside until the buds, or at least the seeds, are ripe. The outdoor plants will be my primary source for F2 seed.

Meanwhile, back in the tent, they have all formed nice small buds, even D3 and D5, and are revealing their structure. Resin production and aromas are still mild except for D2, the broader-leaf NL5 leaner that is obviously faster than the rest of the girls; she is making impressive resin at 2.5 weeks. The stretch seems to be well under control, perhaps too well. The tallest plants are D1 and D3 at about 32", then D5, D7 and D10 at about 28'. I still have a lot of overhead room in the tent, and it looks like the canopy will be at least 6" lower than I would have expected for haze hybrids. In hindsight I should've vegged these plants for a few more days or maybe used larger pots, because my yield will be far less than I hoped if these plants don't stretch another foot or so in the next 10 days. I think Shanti may have bred a lot of the stretch out of the rock-n-roll series.

I just re-set the lights to 11/13, and will continue to feed them Jack's 3-2-1 at pH 6.2 and about 550 ppm through the stretch for another week or so at which time I will dial back the nitrogen to something like 3-1-1. Coming up on three years of growing and I'm still learning how to grow hazes, and hope to be able to avoid burned calyx and leaf tips this grow. D1 is clearly the most nute-sensitive girl and her meager requirements dictate what the rest of the girls get, which is no more than 600 ppm.


i would say that in a hybrid with something like haze and NL5 and skunk, flower time of the male has little to do with anything other than flower time of that male.

it will still be a roll of the dice as to what other traits he will pass on.
ideally, he could have very haze-like traits for everything except flower time, and maybe bud density/formation.

but would you be that lucky?
if not, there will be more of the NL5 and skunk influence.
not necessarily a bad thing.

I agree. The only way to tell will be to progeny test the F2s, which I plan to do.


Aloha braddah!
My thinking (and limited experience lol) is that it makes sense to grow the males out to better assess their abilities. While maturity is an important factor, plant structure, resin production, smell, taste, etc. are IME other considerations as they do add to the mix. It necessitates growing and comparing many males within the chosen strain to determine who is best suited for your daughter's (selected female) hand. It doubles the work and requires enormous amounts of time to do it right esp. with the sativas. At least that was the continual challenge I bumped up against. For a while I was alternating female and male grows. All in pursuit of the one lol.

That's what brought me here. Best to start with the best, mostly unaldulterated seed. Of course lately I have decided that much of what I grow and smoke from the MNS stables (staples ha), as it is, has been just fine with me. It provides variety, even within the phenotypes, for a guy who regularly gets bored smoking the same variety and maintaining the same level of high. I have really been enjoying the CBD versions of late because I don't get so wrecked that my day is a throw-away but I still am able to relieve the tension and pain. However, I continue my hobby with passion similar to my braddah Marcus because what else is there to do that is so gratifying? Great job, Marcus!

Agreed, Musashi, there are few things more gratifying than growing, selecting, breeding and enjoying fine MNS herb. One of those few things is testing orgasm synesthesia effects of primo 20-week punto rojo. :D


These are some long, tall ladies. I can't wait to see colas on them. I think the doors has a distinct spiraling of buds up the stem like a bull kudu horn. Interesting to compare the doors to angels breathe... possibly the same mom, right?

Good to see you Fish! So far the buds on The Doors look pretty normal but I think I can see hints of that spiraling bud structure starting to develop on a couple. Only Shanti knows if it's the same mom as AB, but I doubt it because The Doors is stated to use an NL5HzC mom versus the mango haze mom used for Angel's Breathe. I do happen to have a small clone of my AB F2 #5 keeper outside amongst The Doors and it is already seeded by D4, so I'll have that cross to play with. Several of the more sativa-leaning The Doors girls will get hit with punto rojo pollen in October/November, and those 75% sativa crosses should be spectacular.
 
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i was under the impression doors was C5 x haze AC, but i could be wrong.
i read a lot of stuff on this site, and a lot of stuff is contradictory or just plain wrong, so its hard to know what the truth really is.
but maybe cannafish meant the nl5 haze used in mango haze(therefore in angels breath) could be the mother of the doors.
 
The reason all of this confusion happens is because Mango Haze, and SSH.. The "Sister" part gets lost on people because people forget A and C are same seed\brothers... The A, and C part creates a divide in the mind that makes nl5A seem like a different cross all together than nl5C when technically its the same thing, just brothers that look different knocked up the same chick.
The analogy should almost be step sisters.... I believe that would fix the mental trick that happens...
Theres only been probably 1000 threads started over this mental block :) Maybe 10,000+ posts.
 
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Quick update on aromas, structure and estimated flowering times for The Doors. If you can't tell, I'm really digging this grow. The odd numbered girls are my favorites.

D1: ♀ Mild piney incense. Tallest girl in the tent and still stretching ~ 1"/day. Mid-range flowering time (12 wk?) Strong haze leaner. Fussiest feeder, she's unhappy above 550 ppm and when her roots get too dry.

D2: ♀ Loud, sweet berry-floral with a pine background. Shortest girl and fastest flowering (8-10 weeks?). Red petioles. NL5 leaner.

D3: ♀ Pronounced pine with a lime background. Second latest to flower outdoors. Lanky and still stretching 1"/day in the tent during week 4, strong haze leaner and probably my favorite plant. 14 weeks?

D4: ♂ Leather-incense funk. Very fast to flower outside. Tall, lanky haze leaner. Resinous with glandular trichomes on sugar leaves, only non-glandular trichomes on sepals and stems.

D5: ♀ Pine, carrots(?) with funk background Very slow to flower outside, almost as late as my 20-week punto rojo keeper, but right there with the pack indoors. Tallest female outside, but mid-range height in the tent. Lanky skunk-haze leaner with a little bushiness at the nodes. 15+ weeks?

D6: ♀ Faint funk metallic leather. Second-shortest and second-fastest plant outside. Sticky, greasy resinous buds and sugar leaves outside. Squat, bushy slightly NL5-leaning pheno. 9-12 weeks?

D7: ♀ Straight leather aroma, outdoors and in. Mid-pack flowering time outside. Lanky haze leaner. 12-14 weeks?

D10: ♀Faint metallic leather over a funk background. A runt as a seed plant, the clone in the tent is among the taller girls. 10-12 weeks?
 
Here in New England we had September in August, now we're having August in September, with lots of sunny days, highs in the 80s and 70s and lows in the 50s. Perfect for getting outdoor plants to develop resin, fatten up buds, and ripen seeds. The Doors outside are starting to make some really serious resin quantities and aromas. There will be many F2 seeds, although I may have to hand pollinate D3 and D5, who are taking their sweet-ass time. My plan is to make hash from the seed plants after I remove the seeds, then I'll make cannabutter and awesome cookies from the hash.

Therefore, two days after the equinox, I present to you, The OutDoors.


All 8 seed plants soaking up the warm sun. Feeding them over 2L/day in this hot weather. Jack's 321 with calcium nitrate dialed back to 3-1.5-1, soon to 3-1-1.
The_OutDoors_Sep_23.jpg



D1
D1_Sep_23.jpg



D2 - the NL5 leaner with berry aromas
D2_Sep_23.jpg



D3 - second slowest to flower with dominant pine aromas
D3_Sep_23.jpg



D4
D4_Sep_23.jpg



D5 - last to start flowering outside
D5_Sep_23.jpg



D6 - the bushy pheno, really sticky and aromatic
D6_Sep_23.jpg



D7 - Haze A leaner, methinks, with strong leather and metallic aromas and oily greasy resin
D7_Sep_23.jpg



D10 - the plant formerly known as The Runt, resinous but mild aromas
D10_Sep_23.jpg
 
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~ 4 weeks

Here's a picture of The Doors girls in the tent after 4 weeks of flowering. Resin is starting to build. aromas developing. The plants have all stopped stretching, and now range in height from ~27" to ~37". In fact, most of the stretch was over by the end of week 3. I'm a little pissed about how much yield I left on the table. If I had vegged these for 3-4 more days I could've increased my yield by ~50%. I was caught off guard by how little these haze hybrids stretched; my last two grows were Punto Rojo jungle sativas that stretched for 6 weeks. If I were to grow this strain again, I'd veg rooted clones until they are 6-8" tall. Live and learn. The good news is no training will be required, and I don't have to move the lights, which makes things simple.

The_Doors_F28.jpg
 
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Doors looking proper nice Marcus. J recently sent me a free pack of The Doors after a mix up of the posting a recent auction win. Thanks J.
After watching this thread I have been inspired to run them myself and have 6 doors just pop up. Also running Mm f2s , Ortega, Mks.
Looking at making some Doors f2s if I get a nice male to work with and cross to Ortega mks Mm..... or a nice male from one of these to cross with a doors female.
I wonder Which would make the best male to use Doors or Ortega ????
Sorry I digress. Excited with these options.
Great to see about the stretch on the Doors clones indoors. I will make note for future reference. I have about 2.2m height to play with before lights And growing Doors from seed. I was wondering what height you or anyone else with doors experience, to flower? And if to Top or not? If so at what height? Or node? I would like to keep them about 1.5-.1.8 max. I know different environmental factors can alter stretch but any experience from members welcom.
But for now just enjoying the show.
Love ya work Marcus.
"Break on through to the other side"
Andy21
 
Greetings, Andy21. Psyched to hear you're running The Doors. Post up some pics, brother!

If I was trying to grow the doors to that height in my setup, I'd veg them in my 2-gallon hempy buckets until they were about 0.2 to maybe 0.3 m tall. You might have to bend a couple colas over if you get strong sat leaners. If you don't top them they'll give you a large, fairly dense corkscrew main cola.

I'd recommend The Doors over Ortega, given reported effects and potency, plus having the legendary haze A and C as grandparents. But I'm a sativa guy and I've never grown or smoked Ortega.
 
Hey Marcus these are looking awesome mate !

Would love to see some close up shots of your girls in the tent there !
 
Hey Dkeppel, thanks man! I'll get some close ups in a week or two when there's something more interesting to see. Right now they're all at the small-buds-covered-with-white-pistils stage.

I culled the D4 male outside a few days ago. He did his job and open pollinated The Doors girls outside and I'll have viable F2 seeds from all plants in a few more weeks. I had no problem with him throwing pollen around before my nearby punto rojo keeper went into flower, but the PR girl is starting to throw pistils now and she's only getting Colombian pollen chucked her way. Smells of D4 at culling were very interesting and different than the girls...starting out as funk/incense, then the funk fades and the smell changes to humic earth and wood. About 10 days ago I snipped his flowering branches and set them up as cuts in a vase of water placed on a framed poster in an unused room. Bent the tops over and collected about 5 ml of pollen from the glass with a razor blade (heh, reminded me of the 1980s:) ), which is now dessicated and stored in the freezer. I still have a clone of him going in the veg cabinet, along with clones of his sisters.
 
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Shine on braddah!

Nice to see the progress Marcus. Refreshing to see some members such as yourself actually growing and willing to share hands on experience. Looking forward to what you discover and appreciate the trailbrazing you're doing for the rest of us. Keep it real braddah as I am one of your biggest fans!

Shaka
Mu
 
Many thanks for the props, Musashi...mutual admiration society! I hope you grow The Doors and join the party brother! Hoping andy21 pops in as well.

The girls in the tent are getting resinous and essentially growing large central colas. Meanwhile, I moved The Doors seed plants, still in 5" pots, inside because we're dangerously close to frost right now, and the wind is blowing the girls over, despite my feeble efforts to prevent this. I bought a cheap ($80) 230W Chinese LED COB light fixture that I hung in an empty room. The Doors seed plants need another 2-3 weeks to ripen the F2 seed, and another 5-10 weeks for the buds to ripen, so I'm running them under 8 hours of supplemental light from 8:00 am to 4:00 pm. I hate this cheap-ass light, it has noisy fans and the color spectrum is a little blurpleish, but it's better than the windows alone. Here's a pic of The Doors seed plants inside under the crappy light. There's a punto rojo girl in the middle that's going to get seeded up and won't finish until January. I care more about getting seeds out of these plants than I do about the bud. I'll probably make hash out of the whole lot.

The_Doors_seed_plants_Oct_4.jpg


Here's a picture of D5, left, the last girl to start flowering outside, next to D2, right, the first seed plant to flower.

D5LD2R_Oct_4.jpg
 
20191005_183744.jpg

Hey Marcus,
Nice work going on there. I'm just poping in brother.
I got 5 Doors baby's on the right.
Left is,
2 Ortega ( 1 is just a baby )
2 Mks
2 Medman F2.
I'll just post update photos on Doors as this is a Doors thread along the way if your interested ? I'm just growing these in an Organic Soil and perlite mix michrohize and benificials using filtered or rain water with the occasional Canna bio and rizotonic feed.
The sock is over the top with a layer of perlite to stop Fungus knats.
Transplant them this week to bigger pots with a water resovirour and some sort of whicking system I'm designing. As I have to Pop to Thailand for 2 weeks and leave them. I might just stick them in my auto pots yet. I've done before and come back fine. I'll post before and after shots.
They will be ready to flower on return.
Yours are looking great Marcus. Seeded and the indoors.
All the best
A21
 
You could get some 7 way splitters, and 13-15w LEDs..... Cheap and easy powerful lighting... Think its $10 per 7way splitter\fixture, and 16 pack 14w for $50 on amazon...... 70 bucks you could cover 2x4 at 25w sqft basically.

Hype to see the results.. Everythings look amazing now... Wont take many to find a gem either way... Love your report style... Very good program.
 
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~ 6 weeks

Thanks for stopping by and welcome to The Doors, Andy! And thanks for the advice and kind words, Bibblethegreat.

Herewith are some photos of The Doors in the tent after 6 weeks of flowering. They were at 12/12 for the first ~3 weeks, then 11/13 for the next ~3 weeks, then I dialed them back to 10/14 a few days ago. The plants in the tent look pretty good. No nanners or intersex issues. Resin is building and the buds are swelling. They have very weak root systems due to shortage of veg time, and I've had to stake a couple up. I let the pH in the res get a bit too low and have a little leaf burn on account of that but I've addressed the issue. Aromas are awesome, D1 and D2 are really the only sweet smelling ones, otherwise lots of pine, lime, leather and metallic odors. There's not really all that much variability in resin production or overall bud structure. The corkscrew bud structure that Cannafish observed is showing in most plants.

Here's D1. She's a haze C leaner IMO. Also the tallest girl in the tent.

D1_F42.jpg


D1_cola_F42.jpg



Here's D2. Highly resinous. Interesting bud structure. Second shortest and second fastest. Sweet funk odors.

D2_F42.jpg


D2_cola_F42.jpg



Here's D3. I think this one is the strongest sat leaner in structure. A really beautiful plant. Pine and citrus and smells.

D3_F42.jpg


D3_cola_F42.jpg



Here's D5. This one will be the last to finish, and she's accordingly a little slower than her sisters in building resin. Unique incense aromas over pine, hard to pin down. I forgot to take a picture of D5's cola.

D5_F42.jpg



Here's D6. Runt of the litter. Smallest yielder. Already starting to get some brown pistils; she'll be the first to finish. Faintest metallic leather aromas.

D6_F42.jpg


D6_cola_F42.jpg



Here's D7. Leathery aroma has become more metallic and acrid. Lots of resin.

D7_F42.jpg


D7_cola_F42.jpg



Finally, here's D10. This one smells a little sweeter, more haze C leaning, than most of her sisters.

D10_F42.jpg


D10_cola_F42.jpg
 
Oh that is insanely nice. 8 )

And nice seed budding also . :)

One time I have to give a try for haze, yesterday my skunk haze cl.pack just came, so next spring Ill make thread for that. . .
 
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