Mr. Nice Heaven's Stairway Catalog
- Thread starter cannatari
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jondojoando
New member
nice one, canna! sweet post. cheers, my friend!! , ,, ,jj ..save as, save as, sa....
jondojoando
New member
this'll be a fun read! so early queen comes straight from Nev.. and it was called 'come back early'!? haha great piece 'a trivia!! j j j j
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british_hempire
Guest
Those Grimm strains would all be worth a lot of money now, especially the C99, A11 and A13.
Personally, never been that impressed with the Grimm stuff I've tried, I think they focused their breeding efforts too much towards taste as their main selection criteria so the plants were tasty but lacked character and had flat, boring highs. Probably this reflects the market in Canada/US at the time.
Personally, never been that impressed with the Grimm stuff I've tried, I think they focused their breeding efforts too much towards taste as their main selection criteria so the plants were tasty but lacked character and had flat, boring highs. Probably this reflects the market in Canada/US at the time.
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british_hempire
Guest
You know, I do wonder if any of the genes in the DP and Paradise catalogues are anything other than descended from Wernard or Nevil's work...
There may be the odd fragment that isn't from Nev such as the KC33 from KC Brains and some other KC genes DP also used. DP used quite a lot of the Positronics stuff and KC did some breeding for Posi. There's also the 'Blue' strains from DP that are from DJ Short...
If you break down what's actually in those DP and Paradise strains it's a pretty limited range of the same Skunks, Afghans, Northern Lights, Haze and some outdoor purple crap, they really didn't introduce anything new they just took what was already being sold and rehashed it. In some cases they just directly copied it...
10 years before those catalogues, Positronics (Wernard, KC)and The Seedbank (Nevil) were selling all the same genes at cheaper prices with a lot less hype, really very little new has been introduced to the Dutch scene for a long time. Every time they introduce a 'new' strain it's just another rehash from the same restricted genepool.
Injections of new genes into the Dutch commercial genepool are so infrequent that it's possible to note them all, rehashes of the same old same old masquerading as new breeding work are very numerous however and that makes it really hard for the buyer to know what he's getting and actually find something new he hasn't already tried in a similar form a few times before.
That's why I got into dabbling with crossing plants to make my own seeds - I was sick of paying out my hard-earned for strains that just weren't very interesting or different from what I already had...
There may be the odd fragment that isn't from Nev such as the KC33 from KC Brains and some other KC genes DP also used. DP used quite a lot of the Positronics stuff and KC did some breeding for Posi. There's also the 'Blue' strains from DP that are from DJ Short...
If you break down what's actually in those DP and Paradise strains it's a pretty limited range of the same Skunks, Afghans, Northern Lights, Haze and some outdoor purple crap, they really didn't introduce anything new they just took what was already being sold and rehashed it. In some cases they just directly copied it...
10 years before those catalogues, Positronics (Wernard, KC)and The Seedbank (Nevil) were selling all the same genes at cheaper prices with a lot less hype, really very little new has been introduced to the Dutch scene for a long time. Every time they introduce a 'new' strain it's just another rehash from the same restricted genepool.
Injections of new genes into the Dutch commercial genepool are so infrequent that it's possible to note them all, rehashes of the same old same old masquerading as new breeding work are very numerous however and that makes it really hard for the buyer to know what he's getting and actually find something new he hasn't already tried in a similar form a few times before.
That's why I got into dabbling with crossing plants to make my own seeds - I was sick of paying out my hard-earned for strains that just weren't very interesting or different from what I already had...
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british_hempire
Guest
Hi Elmer
That's a razor-sharp observation you made there and imho, quite correct.
As Nevil said, the main reason why Sk1 was used a lot in breeds was the way it improved the floral structure of plants.
What I mean is, skunk always passes on some desirable floral traits - excellent calyx-to-leaf ratio, prolific production of budmass etc. In short, you had a plant that was great smoke but didn't grow big, chunky buds with not much leaf, the best way to improve it in those regards was cross it to a Skunk.
Nevil also used the NL5 cutting in a similar way when he crossed the Haze to it, the NL5 shortened the flower time, increased the size, density and resin coverage of the flowers etc, basically, the NL5 contributed a lot of desirable growth qualities but being a somewhat netral smelling/tasting plant, the Haze smell/taste totally dominated in the hybrid.
As we all know by now, Nevil's downfall as the breeder came at the beginning of the 90s and within a couple of years of Nev's legal battles it wasn't possible to easily obtain skunk and nl of top quality to breed with. C99's lineage is well known but I'll state it again for clarity:
Mr Soul had three plants he grew from seeds he found in a bag of Jack Herer bought in the Sensi shop in 95. He called these three females Genius, Cafe Girl and Princess. Princess is the one he used to make C99.
The inital f1 cross was Princess to a ShivaSkunk male, ShivaSkunk being Sensi's rename of Nevil's NL5 x Skunk.
Mr Soul then did three filial backcrosses, each time taking the most Princess dominant male and crossing it back to Princess herself. He called this process 'cubing'.
Anyways, the result of this was C99, a 56-day very chunky, good yielding and resinous strain that bred true for those desirable traits. Many loved it's high as it had a somewhat sativa high but in an 8 week plant, many also loved it's taste which was very fruity and in the best pheno, like pineapples.
C99 became like Skunk - used to add desirable growth/floral traits to other plants, usually by using a C99 male, same as Nevil used a Skunk male.
Hence there are so many strains these days with C99 in them, same as 15 years ago so many strains had Skunk1 in them.
This is C99 grown in 2004 from f2s of the original Bross Grimm C99 release.
Nevil has said that the batch of 'Jack Herer' that the seeds Mr Soul started with came from was a very NL5 dom batch. I think that C99 represents an inbred line that is mostly NL5 traits with some Skunk influence (the size of the buds and the calyx-leaf ratio) and some Haze influence clear from the nature of the high it has.
But it's mostly NL genes and it really shows. If Nev still had the NL5 cut and wanted to re-do the tragically lost work he did where he linebred and backcrossed for 8-9 gens to create an NL5 IBL, he couldn't do better than begin with a C99 male imho.
P.S. Sorry I didn't trawl back through Nev's posts to find the quotes about the JH batch the C99 came from and the info on skunk's breeding qualities and how NL5 bred well due to it's somewhat neutral palette. It's all there if people do want to go check though, Elmer can probably ask Nev about it in person sometime anyways, they are both in Oz after all...
That's a razor-sharp observation you made there and imho, quite correct.
As Nevil said, the main reason why Sk1 was used a lot in breeds was the way it improved the floral structure of plants.
What I mean is, skunk always passes on some desirable floral traits - excellent calyx-to-leaf ratio, prolific production of budmass etc. In short, you had a plant that was great smoke but didn't grow big, chunky buds with not much leaf, the best way to improve it in those regards was cross it to a Skunk.
Nevil also used the NL5 cutting in a similar way when he crossed the Haze to it, the NL5 shortened the flower time, increased the size, density and resin coverage of the flowers etc, basically, the NL5 contributed a lot of desirable growth qualities but being a somewhat netral smelling/tasting plant, the Haze smell/taste totally dominated in the hybrid.
As we all know by now, Nevil's downfall as the breeder came at the beginning of the 90s and within a couple of years of Nev's legal battles it wasn't possible to easily obtain skunk and nl of top quality to breed with. C99's lineage is well known but I'll state it again for clarity:
Mr Soul had three plants he grew from seeds he found in a bag of Jack Herer bought in the Sensi shop in 95. He called these three females Genius, Cafe Girl and Princess. Princess is the one he used to make C99.
The inital f1 cross was Princess to a ShivaSkunk male, ShivaSkunk being Sensi's rename of Nevil's NL5 x Skunk.
Mr Soul then did three filial backcrosses, each time taking the most Princess dominant male and crossing it back to Princess herself. He called this process 'cubing'.
Anyways, the result of this was C99, a 56-day very chunky, good yielding and resinous strain that bred true for those desirable traits. Many loved it's high as it had a somewhat sativa high but in an 8 week plant, many also loved it's taste which was very fruity and in the best pheno, like pineapples.
C99 became like Skunk - used to add desirable growth/floral traits to other plants, usually by using a C99 male, same as Nevil used a Skunk male.
Hence there are so many strains these days with C99 in them, same as 15 years ago so many strains had Skunk1 in them.
This is C99 grown in 2004 from f2s of the original Bross Grimm C99 release.
Nevil has said that the batch of 'Jack Herer' that the seeds Mr Soul started with came from was a very NL5 dom batch. I think that C99 represents an inbred line that is mostly NL5 traits with some Skunk influence (the size of the buds and the calyx-leaf ratio) and some Haze influence clear from the nature of the high it has.
But it's mostly NL genes and it really shows. If Nev still had the NL5 cut and wanted to re-do the tragically lost work he did where he linebred and backcrossed for 8-9 gens to create an NL5 IBL, he couldn't do better than begin with a C99 male imho.
P.S. Sorry I didn't trawl back through Nev's posts to find the quotes about the JH batch the C99 came from and the info on skunk's breeding qualities and how NL5 bred well due to it's somewhat neutral palette. It's all there if people do want to go check though, Elmer can probably ask Nev about it in person sometime anyways, they are both in Oz after all...
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i noted that you sourced that catalog in 2000 but og/cw and hs did not close until early 2005 and i was hoping you may also have access to more recent versions? the best of the canadian breeders were in the hs catalog atm, it was almost a competition among them. hell, we may even see a very young rezdog flipping his lips? but so many young talented breeders either quit or split for friendlier confines and their work stopped. and these guys were doing the work and doing it right.
most of the forums were also lost. probably a good thing for me as i was a member, i knew very little, and when i did post i was talking when i should have been listening for the most part. peace-biteme
most of the forums were also lost. probably a good thing for me as i was a member, i knew very little, and when i did post i was talking when i should have been listening for the most part. peace-biteme
cannatari
New member
Sorry, Biteme. That's all I got. I've never even seen another HS catalog. I think it might have been you that asked about HS in the Grail thread which is why I dug this one up in the first place.
@ BH, aren't you forgetting about Princess's brother?
C99 was what I ended up ordering. Gotta agree with BH's "One dimensional" description. I was smart to make seeds and dumb to not store them properly:
Peace.
@ BH, aren't you forgetting about Princess's brother?
C99 was what I ended up ordering. Gotta agree with BH's "One dimensional" description. I was smart to make seeds and dumb to not store them properly:
Peace.
and i was never aware that heaven's stairway offered a printed version of their lineup, mr cannatari, but perhaps this was prior to their online action considering its date?
the online catalog was extensive by the time of the og debacle. atm, og was thee forum and the place to be and hs sold those wares discussed. i would guess maybe 40 different breeders had seed for sale? and for the most part it contained the best of what was going on in canada. peace-biteme
the online catalog was extensive by the time of the og debacle. atm, og was thee forum and the place to be and hs sold those wares discussed. i would guess maybe 40 different breeders had seed for sale? and for the most part it contained the best of what was going on in canada. peace-biteme
jondojoando
New member
hey guys. so who's B.C.G.A?? thanks... .jj
cannatari
New member
BCGA - British Columbia Growers Association. They do not exist anymore.
Quick recap on their gear:
Beauty and the Beast
Blueberry
Grapefruit Bx1
Grapefruit x Blueberry
Killer Queen
Orange Crush
Pink Grapefruit Cocktail
Romberry
Space Queen
Peace.