MNS USA- All Things Cannabis

[quinxstar]

In the industry they all started using led lights few years ago.
Because the leds are far more powerful, I dont know why you say they are not powerful enough, they have better spectrum they are cheaper to run . They out perform digital ballasts in all aspects.
1000 watt can be easy replaced by 650 watt led Hlg for example. This is 35% save in electricity bills. Plus the 1000 watt after 8000 hours lose 5-20% power and recommended to be replaced every year . The led has 50000 hours life time 6 times longer life.

But I see their points why they started that way makes sense.
They farm looks like paradise on earth so much knowledge and hard work keep this facilities running .Impressive.

-SaveTheBrains

a bulb of 1000w is 50 euros when you buy one a big number is low maybe 40 or 30 euro and you can found some chinese shit for 20 euro
the hps or mh are more penetrated light you can put in a hight level and keep eficency in the street you have hps not led
you comparated you little instalation with huge greenhouse or big hangar are you serious ?

led is good a low distancy of the plant you can not use it like a real buld in you kitchen or your saloom

this kind of instalation is some millions dollards are you thinking @shantibaba not thinking the things ?

 

[Swifty]

a bulb of 1000w is 50 euros when you buy one a big number is low maybe 40 or 30 euro and you can found some chinese shit for 20 euro
the hps or mh are more penetrated light you can put in a hight level and keep eficency in the street you have hps not led
you comparated you little instalation with huge greenhouse or big hangar are you serious ?

led is good a low distancy of the plant you can not use it like a real buld in you kitchen or your saloom

this kind of instalation is some millions dollards are you thinking @shantibaba not thinking the things ?

LED's and HPS each have their place and potential.
With such large scale grow many thing have to be factored, I can see with the info from Dreamland why HPS is favored.

LED's however did make a big evolution last years, In my street all HPS streetlighting is replaced by LED's.
I sleep streetside and I can vouch for the LED's being brighter and giving more light than the previous HPS.

Greetings.

 

[Proud Kraut]

no agree with you in the industry they all use classic bulb led is more for personal grow is not powerfull enought
and the cost is too more expensive

LED are definitely powerful enough.
With a NDL/MH you may get a heat burn.

With LED you actually get a light burn, best example are the bleached to white bud tops you can now and.then experience with LED if too close.

Many examples over the www-
Bleached by photons raining on them.

And there are acutally some guys in the industry running LED. Some CBD grows in Switzerland for example run Sanlight.

 

[Apollo]

a bulb of 1000w is 50 euros when you buy one a big number is low maybe 40 or 30 euro and you can found some chinese shit for 20 euro
the hps or mh are more penetrated light you can put in a hight level and keep eficency in the street you have hps not led
you comparated you little instalation with huge greenhouse or big hangar are you serious ?

led is good a low distancy of the plant you can not use it like a real buld in you kitchen or your saloom

this kind of instalation is some millions dollards are you thinking @shantibaba not thinking the things ?

I think their installation is amazing and as I said they know what they are doing for sure and is a reason behind.

no need call anyone or try put down my installation, take a deep breath brother and rol us a giant.

About the led lights I think you need check them out a bit more, and make the maths ,the street light have been everywhere replaced with led lights.

Their farm is amazing and that is the point here Im in love with that place

-SaveTheBrains

 

[Proud Kraut]

a bulb of 1000w is 50 euros when you buy one a big number is low maybe 40 or 30 euro and you can found some chinese shit for 20 euro
the hps or mh are more penetrated light you can put in a hight level and keep eficency in the street you have hps not led
you comparated you little instalation with huge greenhouse or big hangar are you serious ?

led is good a low distancy of the plant you can not use it like a real buld in you kitchen or your saloom

this kind of instalation is some millions dollards are you thinking @shantibaba not thinking the things ?

Street lights are not meant for growing herb and in my city they switched many parts to LED already ( for street lighting i prefer bulbs as they enhance a nice aura, are chilling with their warm light vs the cold white LED that just stings a stoned eye but is way more bright) so this is really more your subjective perspective and not scientific at all.
In the end it also depends on your circumstances and your style of growing what too choose.

 

[Fish]

Here’s my thoughts on it, for the last 30 years all the varieties of cannabis we have today have been bred and acclimated under HPS. Then they chuck a LED over them that seems to be outdated as soon as ya buy one and you spend all your grows trying to ‘get it right’ or to the quality you are used to under HPS. Just my 2 cents.

Cheers
Fish

 

[musashi]

It's already been said but I'll repeat it- there are advantages to both in different situations. HID is still widely used in large commercial operations with good success. As @Dreamland said, if you have the advantage of cheap energy and can use the heat to your advantage in these higher latitudes then why not? And with the use of living soils resulting in extremely dense canopies, I see the reasoning.

"If you’re using LED lights it’s essential to prune carefully to maximize even canopy and cola height. Less pruning is necessary for effective results using HID grow lights because the lights penetrate deeply. LEDs work great, but the plants are usually not as healthy when we compare the same variety of buds."

Because of this, adjusting LED light height may become more critical. I will say from personal experience that while I appreciate the energy savings, my yields have not been the same since I switched out my HID's. I seem to be dealing with more humidity problems these days. And I do miss the winter heat I used to enjoy. If I was not limited in amperage and cost, I would go back to my 2x600w HPS+MH setup. And perhaps I will if/when I start limiting my grow size.

mu

 

[Proud Kraut]

Here’s my thoughts on it, for the last 30 years all the varieties of cannabis we have today have been bred and acclimated under HPS. Then they chuck a LED over them that seems to be outdated as soon as ya buy one and you spend all your grows trying to ‘get it right’ or to the quality you are used to under HPS. Just my 2 cents.

Cheers
Fish

Sup Fish!
Before 30yrs of 'HPS acclimatising' there have been easily 30.000 to 300.000 of real sun.
Everything we do indoor is artificial to a certain degree. I doubt the plants are acclimatised to HOS, it is the growers that are!
With LED the thing is you actually have to learn what is what, gets you deeper.in tthe rabbit hole.
With HPS you just buy a bulb, some last longer but are overall more or less the same.
Im using LED that are 6+ years old and having chosen wisely i didnt regret it
But it was definitely a big change at first.
First harvest was like 0,65/0.75gpw or something but terps that make you sneeze.
The metabolsim is different with good fullspec LED. The weed hits differnt 2...

 

[Fish]

Cool story @Proud Kraut.
Still doesn’t change the fact that all modern cultivars were bred and selected under HPS. That will have a major effect on how the varieties perform under different lighting not so much the naturally sun grown thousands of years old varieties untouched by breeders, you mention, that I’ve never even seen or grown in a grow room.
After 6+ years I’d hope you have your lighting dialed in for how you like your cannabis.
As @Dreamland and @musashi have said or explained their reasons for use and that’s that. Like I said it was my two cents (opinion) and opinions are like arseholes everyone has one.
Fish

 

[Apollo]

I dont agree @musashi with the following "If you’re using LED lights it’s essential to prune carefully to maximize even canopy and cola height. Less pruning is necessary for effective results using HID grow lights because the lights penetrate deeply. LEDs work great, but the plants are usually not as healthy when we compare the same variety of buds."

With leds the plants dont stretch so much, they produce double the quantity and the quality is unmatched. this flowers are under 96 watt in a small 8 liter pot the are so frosty and the second pic the stem size is tiny compared the flower. HLG led makes miracles. @Fish you no need 6 year to tune one grow maybe , about your theory with HPS I have my counter theory to offer.
HPS a light spectrum Led lights have the same and more and they are developed to match cannabis plant needs specifically.
We move forward technology is advancing.

 

[Proud Kraut]

Cool story @Proud Kraut.
Still doesn’t change the fact that all modern cultivars were bred and selected under HPS. That will have a major effect on how the varieties perform under different lighting not so much the naturally sun grown thousands of years old varieties untouched by breeders, you mention, that I’ve never even seen or grown in a grow room.
After 6+ years I’d hope you have your lighting dialed in for how you like your cannabis.
As @Dreamland and @musashi have said or explained their reasons for use and that’s that. Like I said it was my two cents (opinion) and opinions are like arseholes everyone has one.
Fish

Right on, but i go by the facts not by the opinion.
Before i spent what was a shitload of money for me on lighting i took my HPS burned arse to skool and while i still spell wrong with intention sometimes i learned A LOT about what 'light' is and what it does to plants, most LED guys nerd out a little bit on those specs because its just super nice to have the possibility to choose the exact spectrum to buil quality vs frying some nugs from the hip.
The fact alonee that LED has a lower temp profile leaves you with more terps, flavs and trichs intact because they just do not evaporate as fast. Thats just one of the ten LED commandmends.
While i still try new soil mixes and organic inputs because its fun to explore i have good results. Sometimes shit.just doesnt work well but that operator error and has nothing much to do with the light source.

Heres a nug from last seedrun on basic organic soilmix plus some homemade organic feeding



This was 'naturally' pollinated, therefore smaller nusmg because the chicks and the dicks have been on the same schedule and they just busted nuts in early flower (sounds familiar?)

@Apollo thats it. time for some positive examples...

 

[musashi]

I think my trich count is up too with LED and like @Proud Kraut said, there may be a more efficacious product using LED. And I am committed to taking the time to learn how to use these lights more effectively.
But I'm not here to argue the benefits of LED. I'm just the messenger. One size does not fit all. They both have their sweet spots. But there is a huge difference between growing in a small environment or tent and growing in a large building subjected to more light, temperature, other environmental variations. In 3-4 season climes, heat/energy is needed either by way of lights or supplemental heating. It is not just about photon exchange.
An important point that has not been discussed is the economics. While 2+2 might equal 4 in normal terms, tax advantages, depreciation, other business holdings, etc. play a part in tax and business planning- there is a larger picture to consider when running huge operations within business structures and how profits and expenses drop to the bottom line.
You guys are on your own as I'm just sharing what I saw and choose not to nit pick what is clearly a successful operation as is. Any questions, I would refer you to post #24.

mu

 

[Proud Kraut]

Exactly @musashi and like i said before and @Dreamtime approved my theory it depends on the given usecase.
I am not on a crusade against HPS (outside of my own tents) and just wanted to set the record straight for LED because its a whole lotta he say she say and i fd up once with LED so theyre shit.
I only do so because i see the huge value they can bring to the right table for us and i am grateful to have the opportubity to...chough...shed a little light...

 

[Dreamland]

One way or another you will get results . There are many tools in the shed, choose the right one and use it correctly for excellent results . I anticipated the soil would be the star of the show . Classic debates still hold strong even in my absence, good to see testing from many angles are still under way. .

 

[shantibaba]

Hi All

Just wanted to say thanks for Justin to join and answer questions on the greenhouse...welcome and big thanks you know.
While I read the thread and discussion sometimes you all need to know that since we are all in different situations and climates and economic levels we share cultivation of seeds. How people use the same tools in different ways to achieve results is based on many decisions, and framed in a timeline. So as Justin said 6 years ago I constructed this Priva GH and it was contemporary and a big investment to get up and certified and running. Many things developed in the meantime and as the first renovation was to change to raised living beds, revamp all the cultivation systems and recertify all according to the laws of the state 502, we feel we have done a big work and a correct work to date without over budgeting . As things develop we will introduce MNS mother plants as there are several awaiting in the shadows, and possible change lighting one day when the time is correct. Until then please remember individual grow rooms verses commercial farms , while doing similar processes they are on a vastly different scale and with a team...so completely different in actual fact. Justin lives remote with our long time farm hands Edgar and Leo and they all sacrifice many things to do these sorts of projects to benefit our community...so just remember not everything is as shiny as gold n silver and the end results take months of preparation to make things look successful. After all it is agriculture and full of hard work.
So just wanted to say this one time as the discussions are great but sometimes get stuck on points that we are all clear about, yet loop. So be safe and wishing you all well...Sb

 

[Ptree]

Let me just post one thing about lights,
I would not want to change anything, when I see it is working as a whole...
So HPS is suited there plentifull.. As seen from photos. It is dreamland grow as I see it.

1) LEDs still needs to become much more cheeper.
2) Manufacturers needs to use more optics for LEDs to become really impressive in spread departure.
3) Somewhere I read todays Samsung/Osram LED can output 5umol - we are at 2,7-3umol max in hydro shops, so I would not hurry for big farms also..

*just an example
for !1,5 x 1,5 m growtent! you need 2x SANLIGHT EVO 5-150 and that is for enclosed area remember.
- I believe SANLIGHT is one of, if not best industrial level light (atleast for europe), it is usable to depth of 1,5m of plant matter, but that will cost 1200 EUR !!!! :O
- and you would need heater if the environment needs heating up...

**500x 1000W HPS vs. 1000x 320W LED ( 500x 40 EUR vs. 1000 x 600 EUR )**
So for farm like this, LEDs price would become price of small jet engine plane remember!

Impressive HPS farm this is !

 

[musashi]

...There are many tools in the shed, choose the right one and use it correctly for excellent results . I anticipated the soil would be the star of the show...

And that is the discussion I'd like to hear and learn about as it has a most significant impact on plant growth. Ever since reading the series of books by Lowenfels starting with his excellent, "Teaming with Microbes...", I've become a firm believer in these methods. The importance of the many contributors (beneficial insects/microbes) seen and unseen in this "Soil Food Web," cannot be overstated. We truly are all connected.
It would be interesting to get some perspective on living soils from @Dreamland, as he has real-world, hands-on experience with said soils in large settings. What goes into making these soils that creates optimum growing conditions for cannabis? Prepping the soil. Which bugs are used for particular pests? Effective ways to control PM in large areas. Feeding and the importance of certain nutrients. Sources of compost. Organic and benign ways of doing things in harmony.

mu

 

[Dreamland]

And that is the discussion I'd like to hear and learn about as it has a most significant impact on plant growth. Ever since reading the series of books by Lowenfels starting with his excellent, "Teaming with Microbes...", I've become a firm believer in these methods. The importance of the many contributors (beneficial insects/microbes) seen and unseen in this "Soil Food Web," cannot be overstated. We truly are all connected.
It would be interesting to get some perspective on living soils from @Dreamland, as he has real-world, hands-on experience with said soils in large settings. What goes into making these soils that creates optimum growing conditions for cannabis? Prepping the soil. Which bugs are used for particular pests? Effective ways to control PM in large areas. Feeding and the importance of certain nutrients. Sources of compost. Organic and benign ways of doing things in harmony.

mu

Anytime . I am an open book . For the most part

 

[musashi]

When and why would you use nematodes? How do you introduce to soil?

mu

 

[Proud Kraut]

Why not get a soil thread going, i'll open one up if you're with me.
@Ptree there are many manufacturers with Lenses/Optics when it comes to LED. I think it can also become critical if thebdiode runs open and somethibg liquid hitsbthe fixture or vice versa. you never know.what may go wrong.
There are still many good used fixtures on the market, no need.to go brand new model and hang up on ymols its more the spectrum. before you can turn 5ymol into bud you need to dial in a whole lotta stuff first.

Also if you buy Sanlight you pay EU maufactured goods, certified quality, customer service and also the moral of the way it is built is a whole other thing than deepo cheapo chinepo fixtures.
Thats always to be considered, we cant always get the best AND the cheapest.
We can get that with homemade compost for example but LlED will be hard to do.
People who work there need to eat too and go to the same supermarkets etc.

Has anybody experience with Plasma lights? I was looking at them also back in the day but have not pulled the trigger. Never seen a Plasma light grow to date...