Master Kush/Kaze Question

Scrog

New member
I've never had a "real Kush" that I'm aware of and was looking at the MNS strain/s that contain it. I was a little confused. I see Master Kaze which is described as ((Master Kush x Skunk) x Afg/haze) and on an ordering list I was given I see (Master Kush x Afg/Haze). I want to try a Kush specimen but I don't want it mixed with skunk. Does this exist in the MNS lineup? If not, anyone have a good place to start to understand the high, flavors and smells of a pure/authentic kush. Would I look for a pure hindu kush landrace?
 
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badrabbit

New member
I've never had a "real Kush" that I'm aware of and was looking at the MNS strain/s that contain it. I was a little confused. I see Master Kaze which is described as ((Master Kush x Skunk) x Afg/haze) and on an ordering list I was given I see (Master Kush x Afg/Haze). I want to try a Kush specimen but I don't want it mixed with skunk. Does this exist in the MNS lineup? If not, anyone have a good place to start to understand the high, flavors and smells of a pure/authentic kush. Would I look for a pure hindu kush landrace?
There is such ... one member, I think Sensimilla13 perhaps, talked about obtaining said non-skunk version, so I'm not surprised it's on the 'secret order list' from Shanti, which is what I assume you're talking about.

Perhaps he'll spot your header and chime in. (And I think you can find the relevant discussion in the Kaze forum threads, or the MK/S threads).

best,
rabbit
 

badrabbit

New member
I've never had a "real Kush" that I'm aware of and was looking at the MNS strain/s that contain it. I was a little confused. I see Master Kaze which is described as ((Master Kush x Skunk) x Afg/haze) and on an ordering list I was given I see (Master Kush x Afg/Haze). I want to try a Kush specimen but I don't want it mixed with skunk. Does this exist in the MNS lineup? If not, anyone have a good place to start to understand the high, flavors and smells of a pure/authentic kush. Would I look for a pure hindu kush landrace?
Oh, and to the rest of your questions on Kush ... I wish I knew the answer to that. There's a ton of discussion here and at IC Mag on exactly the "what really is kush?" topic, a little searching should turn them up. The conclusion seems to be that's it's simply varying versions of Afghani.

I'm answering the question for myself by working on 3 strains that represent kush, inlcuding MNS Kaze (currently flowering), MNS MK/S, yet to be popped and a variety of 'bubba kush' from another breeder.

I'll post results as I go,

best,
rabbit
 

Scrog

New member
Thanks for the input Badrabbit and sensimilla. I can't wait to try me some MKxAfg/Hz! Here's to hoping you run them next sensi so I can follow along and learn some things.
 

badrabbit

New member
Hey Scrog and Badrabbit,
Yes, I do have MkxAf/Hz but I haven't popped them yet. I have a significant number of them because I have the sneeking suspicion that some really amazing plants will come out of this line. It does not contain skunk. This was the only choice from MNS that was 50% masterkush with no skunk. Of all the strains I got from SB these hold the most mistique for me...I'm thinking of popping them soon as I have just finished an angel heart and spice selection project...it's so hard what to decide to pop!

As far as what Kush is I don't think it's really that much of a mystery...I think with all of the Kushthis Kushthat hybrids some of the true Kush characteristics get jumbled. Basically, one would expect a short, bushy, dark green plant with loads of resin, high-yielding and tight floral cluster and boy do they stink! The stinkest plant I've ever encountered was a Sensi seeds skunk kush and it was amazing. I think the range of odors include skunky, musky and fuel-like odors. I have also read before that some Hindu Kush has a sandalwood scent associated with it.

And all of this is a generalization as a true Kush just actually means that it originated in the Hindu Kush mountain region of Afghanistan/Pakistan!

I also have some Kushage seeds...maybe a MasterKush x Afghan Haze VS Kushage comparison would be really cool!

Cheers all!
Sensi13

PS I am very interested in the MKxSk so if you post a journal l'll be ver happy to follow along!
Thanks Sensi13, I will post as I go, and back at ya, can't wait to hear how your journey progresses.
 

Cptn

Active member
THIS THREAD on ICmag contains comments from Shanti (via kashgar) on characteristics of kush and how to select the Kush pheno's from the MKxSk line.

I wound up growing an amazing Kush plant in 1982 from seeds I got from a friend in Mt. Shasta, CA.
This was my second year growing plants and had flowered about 6 different varieties of indica by that time.
The Kush plant was very different in structure than typical indica.
Unfortunately, it was stolen before harvest and is now "the girl that got away" in my mind.
I have an old pic somewhere I will try to find and scan.

Nevil has said that kush strains in the MNS family originate from NL#2 x Kush4 (from Jim Ortega) and that both were kush type and bred true for those characteristics. LINK


The confusion comes from the OG "brand" hype from CA and the incentive people have to call every indica hybrid they grow "Kush". Hard to tell exactly what the plant looked like when it has been through automatic trimmers and the nugs sit in a dispensary jar for a month.

It is very similar to people calling any old sativa hybrid "Haze."
There IS a "real thing" and not all of it is.
Hopefully it is a little clearer in that context.

In these days of poly-hybrids of unknown or intentionally misrepresented heritage, it is nice to know that there is a place to go where you can get the original foundation stuff that the other guys have built their BS on top of.
That (among other reasons) is why I chose MNS.
 

Cptn

Active member
As far as what Kush is I don't think it's really that much of a mystery...I think with all of the Kushthis Kushthat hybrids some of the true Kush characteristics get jumbled. Basically, one would expect a short, bushy, dark green plant with loads of resin, high-yielding and tight floral cluster and boy do they stink!
The stinkest plant I've ever encountered was a Sensi seeds skunk kush and it was amazing. I think the range of odors include skunky, musky and fuel-like odors. I have also read before that some Hindu Kush has a sandalwood scent associated with it.
I share your passion for kush Sensi13 but would like to make some comments on your assumptions I have bolded above:
Bushy: Yes, Kush plants are bush shaped, but they are not dense. They have long internodes with thin-ish branches.
High Yielding: Not necessarilly. Pure kush plants are actually known to be poor yielders. Kush HYBRIDS on the other hand can be very heavy.
Sensi seeds skunk kush: Wasn't this bred by Nevil and the forerunner of today's MNS MKxSk? No telling how close the sensi is to the original after all this time, right?
skunky: Characteristic of skunk hybrids, not pure kush.
fuel-like Nevil says fuel smells ARE characteristic of kush

Hey Scrog and Badrabbit,
Yes, I do have MkxAf/Hz but I haven't popped them yet. I have a significant number of them because I have the sneeking suspicion that some really amazing plants will come out of this line. It does not contain skunk. This was the only choice from MNS that was 50% masterkush with no skunk. Of all the strains I got from SB these hold the most mistique for me...I'm thinking of popping them soon as I have just finished an angel heart and spice selection project...it's so hard what to decide to pop!
This is exciting. The combo has a lot of potential. As an opportunity to do selection for pure kush pheno's though, I am not sure it is better than the MKxSk. Kush tends to finish later than normal indicas, it has lanky internodes and a big stretch, all of which are also haze traits. The short pheno's are likely Af dominant and not kush. Picking the pure haze of of this would seem to be harder to me than the MKxSk. Still, those seeds are #1 on my next order ;-)

A full pack of MKxSk seedlings :D :
 

Scrog

New member
Master Kush, Here I Come!

Thanks Cptn for the awesome responses! I can't even begin to tell you how helpful those links were. Not only did you provide me with a guide for Master Kush selection straight from the source but the second link explained the mystery of why I smell skunk in some of my Ortega (AfgTxOrt15) buds.

It's the Afghan T!

Is there any reason to believe it would be harder to isolate the MK from MKxAfg/Haze instead of MKxSk?

Once again...

Thanks Cptn for the effort and thanks to Shanti and Neville for having the integrity necessary to release their strain lineages.

EDIT: I'm also curious about KUSH 4. Was it from a landrace that Jim Ortega collected himself in the KUSH region...did neville smoke the kush 4 to know how its characteristics changed once combined with the NL1 or was it a clone male? Geez, I could just keep going and going...
 
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Cptn

Active member
Is there any reason to believe it would be harder to isolate the MK from MKxAfg/Haze instead of MKxSk?

Once again...

Thanks Cptn for the effort and thanks to Shanti and Neville for having the integrity necessary to release their strain lineages.

EDIT: I'm also curious about KUSH 4 ...
I am glad this has been helpful as I have a lot of respect for you and Sensi13 and have thoroughly enjoyed reading both of your posts.

On selecting for kush in the MKxSk vs. MKxAfgHz, hard to say.
Everybody has an idea of what skunk smells like, so if you smell skunk in the mix instead of "rotting pinecones/lemon" you know Pepe' Le Pew has been there ;-)
AfgHz on the other hand . . . I don't have any experience growing Haze yet so for me it's an unknown.
On the other had, pure kush is DENSE nugs. Pics I have seen of AfgHaze tend to foxtail at maturity.
With zero experience to back me up, I can guess that you may get some very clear differences in phenos at flower if you catch a pure kush in selection.

Here are some more links I have collected that I think will help you Scrog with your questions about what Nevil got from Jim Ortega ;-)

Nevil on strains from Jim Ortega - Afghani

Nevil, More on strains from Jim Ortega - Thread: questions for Nevil on afghani and kush lines (the other grail!)

Nevil AfgT and AfgS - Thread: Are SSH, Jack Herer and Diesel the same thing?

One more link on next page
 
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Scrog

New member
Hey Captn,

Looks like this statement should be changed according to Shanti response to another member.

"Kush 4 (from Jim Ortega), I crossed with NL2(which had the same Kush smell) and this Kush Hybrid is the foundation of todays Kush lines"...except Shanti's which is a Hindu Kush IBL created in the 90s.
 

Cptn

Active member
Yeah, definitely ;)
It is worded as a question. Think I will append it with something from the other pst you mentioned.
 

rimmeo

Banned
kush

I've never had a "real Kush" that I'm aware of and was looking at the MNS strain/s that contain it. I was a little confused. I see Master Kaze which is described as ((Master Kush x Skunk) x Afg/haze) and on an ordering list I was given I see (Master Kush x Afg/Haze). I want to try a Kush specimen but I don't want it mixed with skunk. Does this exist in the MNS lineup? If not, anyone have a good place to start to understand the high, flavors and smells of a pure/authentic kush. Would I look for a pure hindu kush landrace?
the purer strains are much leafyer than a good hybrid that masterkushx skunk hybrid is worth ordering and it doesnt take that long to flower like the kush/haze hybrids
 

Reason

New member
Nevil has said that kush strains in the MNS family originate from NL#2 x Kush4 (from Jim Ortega) and that both were kush type and bred true for those characteristics. LINK
I asked Shanti directly, quoting Nevil's post, and he confirmed that these are in fact NOT the plants behind his Kush. It was a Hindu Kush IBL that won the Bio Cup in 1994 before he and Nevil began work together.

I believe Nevil is talking generalities when he says "today's kush lines".

Which then begs the question, could there be NL2xKush4 seeds stashed away to be revived and crossed with the Master Kush mother? Let's all keep our fingers crossed.
 
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