@PlantManBee, if I could find that picture and if had decent Photoshop skills that could be the basis for funny weed-, MNS- and haze-based memes.
@Broseidon, I've done some reading on the matter also and agree with the good summary you put together.
So let me put this question to the both of you, and to anyone else who wants to respond: If you could only flower 2 of the males in the picture I posted, for the purposes of making F2 seeds from to-be-selected females in this grow, which one would you cull? My objective is to make seeds that, when grown out, move the effect towards the haze side of the Indica-Haze spectrum and away from the "heavy- producing lethargy after a few hours" as reported @musashi. My observations:
Vigor: AB9 > AB4 > AB1
Resin: Nothing out of the ordinary on any of them
Odor: AB4 has stronger floral/funk odor, AB1 and AB9 have faint early haze odors
Hollow stems: I'm not sure about the others, but I think AB9 has a hollow stem.
Structure and leaf morphology: See pic below.
Here they are again, from left to right AB1, AB4 and AB9.
First off, great grow, been lurking and I appreciate a well organized, clean, well thought out grow. So props to you man!
I think your rushing judgement without seeing and smelling them through their flowering cycle. Males are such a pain in the ass. One thing I've done in the past is cut a bigger top and put it in a vase to observe it go further into flower. The smells come out, flower structure and resin. You'll be in a much more informed place seeing all of that.
@topheavy420 - Thanks man. I'll try your technique for flowering out the top. I only have room to flower out 2 males and I'm going to have to lop off the top to fit any of them into the flowering chamber for randy males.
@PlantManBee - I'm curious...why the slowest flowering male? Pollinating a few females and only keeping seeds from the best of them is a good idea.
Here are some photos I took of the plants last night. Lots of stretching going on now, as most plants are growing ~3" per day.
AB1 - I like the way this male looks all stalky and equatorial. Faint leather and incense odor.
AB2 - seed plant now at 6.5 weeks since 12/12, and less than 2" tall when flowered. Runt of the litter. Looks like strong NL5 leaner with dense bud and dark, shiny leaves.
AB2 flower - smells strongly of leather. Dense bud structure.
AB3 - Clone is still in the veg cabinet and about 4" tall. I'm going to flower this plant soon.
AB4 - Indica-leaning male that I'll probably cull.
AB5 - Smells are incredible...I think this may be one of the mango phenos. Loving the hazy, viney flower structure and elongated teardrop shaped calyxes. I think she'll go 12 weeks easily. Pruned off a bunch of dried up leaves from her acid bath treatment and she cleaned up nicely for her close up and appears to be doing well. Just started to show some reddish pistils.
AB5 top colas
AB6 female at F8 - incense odor
AB7 at F8. One of my favorite girls at this point. Odors are citrus, leather, incense.
AB8 at F8. Greasy stem rub, odor is incense and metal with a sharp acrid first impression.
AB9 male at F8. Most vigorous male by a good margin. This bad-ass wants to be the stallion who will mount the world. Lime and floral smells.
AB10 female at F8. Seed plant manifolded for 8 colas and most vigorous plant in the batch. Smells are leather and lime.
Hey Darkus, I've read a few breeders who do think the trait of early flowering is likely linked to hemp/fiber strains. I've had pretty good results with early flowering males though too. Just what i tend to do.
Smoke the fully mature male flowers after collecting pollen from each... Save a clone of each male... That's the way i test my males... Usually a pretty accurate measure for me of the high a male contributes.
U can dilute the pollen with flour after baking the flower dry for a half hr to completely dehydrate it n letting it cool... At ratio of 1/4... Air tight vial n freeze.. Maxed I've used pollen this way is up to a yr but sure it can go longer.
Choosing a male based of structure is not as bad of idea as some make it seem.. Factoring in smell, n high of male flowers along with structure is a bit better. Goodluck with ur first pollen chucking experience. I love it... 100 seeds from a 17 inch cola hehe.. Endless possibilities.
Just reviewed ur nutes also.. That's allot of bottles man . without actually telling u how to grow bc ur doing great n i really love how ur listening to ur plants. And Bc I've been tweaking n playing with my nutes for years n i think everyone should.. I'd be careful of the micro n koolbloom during the last half of flowering wk 5 for a 9 wk plant. The level of ammonium n phosphorus in the koolbloom, and the imbalance of micros will cause for very hot throat burning heavy smoke. After week 5 of a 9 wk plant better to boost potassium level. If u would like a more simple GH recipe just let me know. My 1st grows in coco i started on GH.
N don't cull all the 8 weekers most the 8 wk were just plain shit, but there was an 8 weeker in there i still have that was friggin phenomenally potent relaxing n long lasting. I really would do a smoke test first.
Using RAID for fungus gnats is akin to using glyphosate for a singular weed growing in your driveway. Can you say overkill? It is the lazy mans solution. Why not simply bend down and pluck it out? What appears a simple solution (chemical use) may have devastasting effects on the surrounding environment and/or on your health.
-Using knowledge about the pest's habits, life cycle, needs and dislikes
-Using the least toxic methods first, up to and including pesticides
-Monitoring the pest's activity and adjusting methods over time
-Tolerating harmless pests, and
-Setting a threshold to decide when it's time to act
Time and time again, overwatering results in FG insect infestations. It’s the habitate they thrive in! Bottom watering vs top watering can make a difference. Dry soil (not actually DRY) is what needs to be achieved. All beneficials can breathe and do what they need to do without drowning is the simplest explanation. When roots can’t breathe, your plants won’t do well and will manifest disease. All plants don’t require the same amount of water. Rock your pots!
While there are solutions such as DE, pest strips, beneficial insects, etc., there is no substitute for soil that drains well coupled with proper watering technique.
Lol... Millions of ppl use raid in their homes man... U have worse pesticides in ur system from eating an apple n consuming a beer from the hops industry.... Shit eating a bowl of oatmeal puts more pestiside in ur system than a quick simple spray.. But i hear ya... 2 second chemical footprint killing the environment n all that, better not do that. Sorry for the suggestion. Stick with neem n buy some benificials.. Hopefully they'll go away... Eventually somehow
Half life of raid by the way pretty much gone in 24 hrs
"In the presence of sunlight, pyrethrin 1, a component of pyrethrins, breaks down rapidly in water and on soil and plant surfaces. Half-livesare 11.8 hours in water and 12.9 hours on soil surfaces. On potato and tomato leaves, less than 3% remained after 5 days."
You are not telling people to use Pyrethrins, you are telling them to use RAID. WTF?
"Currently Raid Ant & Roach Killer contains pyrethroids, piperonyl butoxide, and permethrin; other products contain tetramethrin, cypermethrin and imiprothrin as active ingredients. Raid Flying Insect Killer, a spray, uses prallethrin and D-phenothrin."
M in the D, DO NOT listen to this guy if you value your health. He obviously doesn't give a ship past killing the pests.
I have gotten rid of worse pests without resorting to RAID. Reducing waterings and eliminating any rotting vegetation will clear up the problem.
Greetings, MNS brethren. I hope the pesticide discussion doesn't further derail this grow log. I have been using mosquito bits and it seems to be helping...just did my second weekly application. I could dial back the watering frequency but probably not enough to both dry out the upper layer of coco AND also keep the plants happy...seems that it takes at least 3 days for it to dry out and these plants need water more often than that. Besides, you really can't overwater a hempy bucket, right? I am going to set up a drip system which can address the top-watering problem as well as give me the flexibility of leaving the grow unattended for several days, if need be.
@Cola Bro - Thanks for the compliment, man! I'm jealous of your living in Costa Rica, so we're even!
@cyoheights - I really appreciate your input. Your advice and suggestions are welcome and have been very helpful to me. I'll PM you about your recommended GH nute recipe. The two girls currently in Week 8 are starting to show some tip burn, so any advice you can provide on nutes will be valuable to me.
@musashi - Nice concise summary of IPM. Fungus Gnats really don't bother me much now that I've gotten rid of the bubble cloner and gone with a simple propagation dome. I'd still like to be rid of them and eliminating top watering seems to be the most effective way to do so. Thanks.
@PlantManBee - No worries, I'll hold off on the Raid! I've read Subcool say that early-flowering males tend toward hemp characteristics, but I've never seen any evidence to back up the claim. Of course getting any kind of solid evidence from any breeder justifying their selection criteria is usually pointless!
OK, back to the grow. The girls are still stretching after 18 days of 12/12 light schedule, although they do appear to be slowing down a little. I may have to supercrop AB7 as she is now within about 5" of the COBs; that's over 6X stretch, and still going! On the other hand, the seed plant AB10, mainlined for 8 colas, only stretched 2X. I put a little chart together to better visualize it.
I'll wait until next week to post new pictures of the girls, but here are a couple photos of the two males I retained for pollen production and F2 seeds. I let them stay in the flower tent as long as I dared until their balls started swelling, then I lopped the upper 2/3 of each plant off and stuffed them in the flower chamber for randy males, where they seem to be doing well.
Here's AB1 right before he was pruned, not as large as the other male but reminds me of pictures I've seen of Thai plants.
Here's AB9 before he was pruned. Very vigorous and he is developing a mango funk smell.
Both males had hollow stems. I've read that this is a good indicator for potency.
LOL... Prallethrin is rapidly absorbed in rats and rapidly excreted in urine (mostly as metabolites) with a biphasic (3-12 and 12-48 hours) clearance (half-lives of 3-5 and 7-35 hours for cis- and trans- isomers in both phases respectively.)
The half-life in the soil ranges from 1-2 days in upland conditions, and up to 2 months in flood conditions. In the air, d-phenothrin breaks down rapidly with a half-life of 38-72 minutes. On plant surfaces d-phenothrin has a half-life of less than 1 day.
Raid flying insect repellent works... if you dont like it dont use it.
End of discussion
Sorry Marcus really wasn't an intentional derailment..
Cherry picking data again brah. First you state more pesticides in my food, then you cite data on wrong chemical, then you throw out supposed half-life numbers to try to further convince me that this product is somehow safe to use. Half-live numbers don’t tell the whole story. Half-life numbers have a range depending on a lot of variables including sunlight and microbial degradation. Some studies show increased half-life in sunshine. There is data that shows these chemicals persisting for up to 28 days in organic soil. Additional studies indicate half-lives out 40+ days. Lots of variability that I am not willing to subject myself or patients to.
Something that is consistent though, is this statement:
“EMERGENCY OVERVIEW RISK
Toxic by inhalation.
Harmful in contact with skin and if swallowed.
Toxic to bees.
Very toxic to aquatic organisms, may cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment”
No argument that RAID works. Safe to use on my pot/medicine plants? I’ll pass.
It might not work with your data, but I would pinch the stems at the tops of the tallest stalks to slow them down and speed up the shorter ones. With practice you can real help even out the balance of your plants and canopy.
Mushashi Let the mans thread continue please. He will either use it or he wont. You will definitely not. I did state the wrong chemical. Your right Get a life
He's not growing in organic soil or standing soil or sun light. He's not using enough to poison aquatic life and kill bees, and the date stated is from university studies about the chemicals used under artificial light on plant surfaces. One is 5-8 the other 2 days not enough to poison anyone. Or effect a grow. He's not trying to kill roaches or.... Not even sure why I'm responding as I'm here to see how the mans thread is progressing and your here with bs like he's fogging out a flowering room with the stuff a day before harvest. Man they act like I'm feeding the leaves in salad to people right after a spray. Lol Even with a supposed half life of 40 days which I cannot find evidence for but possible I guess 2wks in clonner 3 wks veg 8 weeks flower is friggin 91 days. Guy really trying to tell me there is still poison after 91 days? In the amount used to kill fungus gnats? Get a life... Really didnt mean to cause such BS on your thread. I apologize...
Take your wikipedia ass outa here. or take it to pm but get the hell outta the man's thread with your bull.
He clearly states he would like his thread to continue without pestiside discussion. Move on