Living Soil

Today the final ingredients for my living soil mix arrived (y)

Peat free organic soil
full


Worm castings
Blood meal
Fish meal
Crustacean meal
Algae lime
Greensand
Rice
Pumpkin seeds
full


To start my living soil adventure I will stick to the 'TLO New Beginnings Soil Mix' recipe.
full

My plan is to let the soil mix cook for at least 30 days before I start my grow.

Let soil live
MB
 
Streptomyces exploration is triggered by fungal interactions and volatile signals
A. https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.21738.001
B. https://elifesciences.org/articles/21738

The Intricate Relationship Between Arbuscular Mycorrhizal Fungi and Streptomyces

MYCOSTOP® | Lallemand Plant Care
https://www.lallemandplantcare.com/en/suisse/products/product-details/mycostop/

NOTE: "Contains a high concentration of Streptomyces K61 (i.e. Griseoviridis), a soil actinobacteria found naturally in peat moss."

Streptomyces Griseoviridis (K61) Overview
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/streptomyces-griseoviridis

Streptomyces Griseoviridis Strain K61 (129069) EPA Fact Sheet
https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/reg_actions/registration/fs_PC-129069_01-May-00.pdf

NOTE: "Streptomyces griseoviridis Strain K61 is a naturally occurring soil bacterium initially isolated from peat in Finland."

Health Canada's Re-evaluation Decision (RVD2020-04) Regarding Streptomyces Strain K61 and Its Associated End-use Products
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-can...on-decision/2020/streptomyces-strain-k61.html

NOTE: Mycostop Biofungicide is registered in Canada for application as a water suspension by spraying or drenching the surface of growing media.

Mycostop Biofungicide | Verdera | How to apply to garden plants

Increase Marketable Yield with LALSTOP K61 WP

LALSTOP K61 WP
https://www.lallemandplantcare.com/en/usa/products/product-details/lalstop-k61-wp/
 
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Wise Use of Peatlands

Research to focus on microbes in peat moss || Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
https://www.llnl.gov/article/44696/research-focus-microbes-peat-moss

AN EXCERPT: Weston will use genetically characterized peat moss and microbial members to construct synthetic communities to test how host moss genes influence microbiome assembly and functioning. "Peat moss microbiomes are extremely complex with thousands of members with diverse metabolic capabilities," he said.

"To help determine the role of specific community member interactions," Weston added, "we will decompose the field system into simplified synthetic communities where community changes and nutrients can be accurately measured and subjected to precise environmental manipulations."

"We can engineer wetlands to encourage the growth of peat moss, but that’s not our goal," Kostka said. "We’re trying to figure out how the microbes help the plants grow better."

Nutrients and Peat Soils Research
 
@thaseus92 seen the PU thing too u mean the little foam cubes, right?

Yeah I think it's nasty. Just my opinion.

Rockwood also can contain toxic industry residues and on top you're using salts on it that are produce in energy intense industrial processes like the Haber-Bosch Verfahren for example - and really just as an example. I'm not trying to discuss every little detail of the obvious opposites we are looking at here vs a natural approach what this thread is actually meant to raise awareness to and helps to bring options to the table to get your own LOS going if interested.

And there are many ways you can tackle this if you understand the basic principles of what LOS actually is.

So this LOS approach is really like a canvas you can paint your own picture on with different colors vs those classic ways are more like filling in mandalas.
Of course the laws of aesthetics and ratio of the golden mean still hold value for the finished picture after all.

iu


@Freedom_Fighter see your working hard to make your point and if I said peat is sterile seems I have been proven wrong. But actually anything in touch with air in normal environments is not steril anymore as spores are omnipresent.
I refer to actual practice, I know there are often root issues in peat in Autopot systems where nothing beneficial has been introduced and a regular feeding Programm has been run from bottled nutes.

No way I find the time to even check 25% of this info drop out anytime soon, my point was if you don't add any mycos, enzymes, EM, IMOs or whatever comes to mind the peat does not bring the biology you're looking for out of the bag, vs a bagged Terra Preta for example or a homemade LOS mix that had more than just a little expanded glass foam aka perlite added and is cooked and naturally will come with a plethora of microbial and fungal presence for your plants rootzone.

I am not saying one can't run successful crops in peat that has been proven already for decades to work and I started my organic journey with Canna Terra Plus peat. Literally plain and simple white peat and added a layer of hydro pebbles, mixed some horn and mycos in and supplemented with manure in veg and guano in flower.

Let's just say peat is neat for those who like to use it but there are better ways and that's that.

Nobody will be crucified for using peat, it's just outdated and ignoring the regenerative cycles other base ingredients for LOS bring to the table and especially those that can be used instead of peat, I think that's the foremost reason to look for peatless substrates.

And for us in the EU I guess most of the peat if not all is an import just as the coco (which can also be exchanged for other things and is just an interesting base ingredient from my POV which is also not absolute) so there's no such thing to us as a local benefit or such, I think we've exhausted our peat ressources already some time ago but I didn't further investigate the topic beyond as I already had enough reasons to switch.
 
Yeah I think it's nasty. Just my opinion.

Rockwood also can contain toxic industry residues and on top you're using salts on it that are produce in energy intense industrial processes like the Haber-Bosch Verfahren for example - and really just as an example. I'm not trying to discuss every little detail of the obvious opposites we are looking at here vs a natural approach what this thread is actually meant to raise awareness to and helps to bring options to the table to get your own LOS going if interested.
Tottaly agree with that! just intresting how different the POV in these two ways are. We as little growers do anything to get life into our soil those big yielders i knew dont have no greater fear. I at least try to convince everyone around to use aerpoponic instead of soilless grwoing with rockwool or cocoslabs. Need a lot of Investion and cleaning effort but really is a game changer in my opinion at least to not throw away that much residue soil alternatives as they do. Luckily we had one producer of self made aeroponics in my hometown who really knows what hes doing. Began with one little backyard store in an garage and now produces a fucking lot of his systems.


And for us in the EU I guess most of the peat if not all is an import just as the coco (which can also be exchanged for other things and is just an interesting base ingredient from my POV which is also not absolute) so there's no such thing to us as a local benefit or such, I think we've exhausted our peat ressources already some time ago but I didn't further investigate the topic beyond as I already had enough reasons to switch.
That Right! Europa is at the edge of losing wide peat areas when it not happen already. @Freedom_Fighter guess the great gap between our POV is that europa has a way older history of using his peat fields and lets be honest rape them. As we already killed most of our great natural forests in the late medieval wasnt canada mostly populated by people who lived way more with the nature rather then fucking em up to build and kill each other across europe? Also something that depens on how strong is your country inhabitant by people. Canada has 4,2 people per square kilometer, Germany has 247 on the same landsize.


Also our Envioremental ministary says: (sry its the Ministary for nutrition and agriculture)
What measures are planned?

To ensure that the CO₂ concentration in the atmosphere does not rise any further, the Federal Government's Climate Protection Plan 2050 lists the following measures with regard to the use of peat in Germany:

The use of peat in hobby gardening as well as in gardening and landscaping should be strongly avoided through specialist information and information measures.
The federal government will implement requirements for the use of peat substitutes in the procurement guidelines for public contracts in gardening and landscaping.
The BMEL is initiating information measures on the use of peat substitutes in horticulture.
The BMEL supports research projects on peat substitutes.

In the 2030 climate protection program, the federal government has committed to ensuring that the use of peat in recreational gardening is almost completely eliminated in the coming years. The aim is to completely eliminate it by 2026. In commercial horticulture, peat is to be largely replaced by the end of the decade. The starting point of all efforts is the voluntary avoidance of peat by everyone (earth industry, commercial and hobby gardening).

The coalition agreement provides for the development of alternatives to peat use and a promotion plan for peat extraction and use.



And please dont get that offensive! Just try to stick to the greece style discussion of thesis - antithesis - synthesis. Really no peat hating the exact opposite is true, love it so much that it should lay there where it grows!

also intresting story, one of the first Concentration Camps in Germany was used to force the workers to work in bog to collect peat. not to influence the discussion just some background information.
 
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Aeroponic Made in Germany sounds great.
Only issues I see you're pretty dependant of nutrient companies, availability and in case of a black out everything wilts down.
Now black outs are rare in present days but we actually had one lately plus you never know what's coming next...
 
@thaseus92 as you brought up CO2 emissions and climate, Terra Preta uses 10-30% activated charcoal. This charcoal is a CO2 deposit, so while fixing that in your medium it also improves soil life and helps the climate, if you believe that CO2 is an issue.
On the other hand more CO2 in the atmosphere and hotter summers also lead to higher plant metabolism and bigger growth - meaning the plants will also produce more oxygen.
At least thats how the photosynthesis model is taught, right?
So how in the world could that be an issue? We just need to give nature some time and space to work, thats it.
During lockdowns you could see the nature bouncing back already in some places in a pretty short amount of time, we just need to stop working against it and instead work with it hand in hand with natural principles we can only benefit from this relationship.
 
During lockdowns you could see the nature bouncing back already in some places in a pretty short amount of time, we just need to stop working against it and instead work with it hand in hand with natural principles we can only benefit from this relationsh
You name it! Also see places like Tchernobyl how fast and complete nature even gets back radiative places and life goes on. IMHO try to produce the smallest footprint possible is the goal. Respect waste and cycle up as much as u can. May u know some old german classic out of the eco movement in Germany? Einfälle statt Abfälle?

https://www.isbn.de/verlag/Einfälle+statt+Abfälle


Funny guy who had some great influence on me thru his Books, whole ideas and style of living.

But back to topic:

Today started some new living soil project for pots, containing only old pots as soil.
Put in there:
-BioBizz Premix
-Dry fertilizer containing bloodmeal, feathermeal, potatoskin and Basalt
-Sheepwool
-Donkeyshit but well rested and mixed up with straw
-Soyproteinisolate leftover from fitness shakes but bio
-oatmeal pulverized
-rest at the bottle bottom of some biobizz from an felllow
-some very old crunchy bio honey residue
-every active charcoal i could get from fellows most of it from aquarium

Hope that works at least to refresh the old pots and maybe gets the next base for some real living soil with more products. Also quite unsafe with that whole donkeyshit thing but the buddy who spent it to me swore it works and his OD plants this year speak for it as well.
 
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You name it! Also see places like Tchernobyl how fast and complete nature even gets back radiative places and life goes on. IMHO try to produce the smallest footprint possible is the goal. Respect waste and cycle up as much as u can. May u know some old german classic out of the eco movement in Germany? Einfälle statt Abfälle?
I hear that saying for the first time but that's actually how I see it, thanks!

Another good one:

Die Natur kapieren und kopieren.

Those two together already formulate a healthy baseline of principles to follow.
 
I hear that saying for the first time but that's actually how I see it, thanks!

Henry David Thoreau said: "Speaking the truth takes two - one who tells it and one who listens." :)

If you like check his books also because you mentioned blackout and what you can find in there is more than a good and well made survival guide ;) also love it that they complete drawn the books and all. Just amazing how some small group of people took an complete different path of evolving then those 80´s finance Helmut Kohl style economy radicalist.

Die Natur kapieren und kopieren. Also some great saying! Thats the reason i love Thoreau so much, the way he teached me to see nature in a complete different way.
 

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Die Natur kapieren und kopieren.
Diese wunderbare Welt ist eher erstaunlich als bequem, eher schön als nützlich und eher ein Gegenstand der Andacht als der Ausbeutung. Die Ordnung der Dinge sollte daher geändert werden: der siebte Tag sollte der Tag der Arbeit sein, der Tag, an dem wir unseren Lebensunterhalt im Schweiße unseres Angesichts verdienen.
Die übrigen sechs Tage aber sollten der Sabbath der Liebe und der Seele werden - eine Zeit, in der wir durch diesen weiten Garten streichen, um uns den sanften Einflüsterungen und subtilen Eingebungen der Natur zu überlassen.

Es gab Zeiten, in denen ich mich nicht entschließen konnte, die Blüte des Augenblicks irgendwelcher Arbeit der Hände oder des Kopfes zu opfern. Ich lasse gern einen breiten Rand an meinem Leben. An manchem Sommermorgen saß ich, nachdem ich mein gewohntes Bad genommen hatte, von Sonnenaufang bis Mittag in Träumereinen versunken, auf meiner sonnenbeschienenen Türschwelle zwischen Fichten, Walnußbäumen und sumach in ungestörter Einsamkeit und Stille, während die Vögel ringsum sangen oder leise durch das Haus flatterten, bis ich durch die an das westliche Fenster fallenden Sonnenstrahlen oder durch Wagengerassel auf der Landstraße daran erinnert wurde, daß die Zeit vergeht. In solchen Stunden wuchs ich wie das Korn in der Nacht. Sie waren viel besser, als irgendwelches Werk meiner Hände gewesen wäre. Es war keine meinem Leben abgezogene, sondern um so viel dreingegebene Zeit. Ich verwirklichte, was die Orientalen Beschaulichkeit und Arbeitsenthaltsamkeit nennen. Meistens kümmerte ich mich nicht darum, wie die Stunden verflogen, der Tag stieg empor, als ob er mein Werk beleuchten wolle. Es war Morgen, aber siehe, nun ist es Abend geworden, und nichts Berichtenswertes ward getan.

Henry David Thoreau.

This wonderful world is more astonishing than comfortable, beautiful rather than useful, and an object of devotion rather than exploitation. The order of things should therefore be changed: the seventh day should be the day of work, the day on which we earn our living by the sweat of our brow.
The remaining six days should be the Sabbath of love and the soul - a time in which we walk through this vast garden to surrender to the gentle whispers and subtle suggestions of nature.


There were times when I could not bring myself to sacrifice the flower of the moment to any work of the hands or head. I like to leave a wide margin on my life. Many a summer morning, after taking my usual bath, I sat, lost in reverie from sunrise to midday, on my sunlit doorstep between spruces, walnut trees and sumac, in undisturbed solitude and silence, while the birds sang all around me or fluttered quietly through the house. until I was reminded by the sun's rays falling on the western window or by the rattle of cars on the country road that time flies. In such hours I grew like a grain in the night. They were much better than any work of my hands would have been. It wasn't time taken away from my life, but so much added to it. I realized what the Orientals call tranquility and abstinence from work. Most of the time I didn't care how the hours flew by; the day rose as if it wanted to illuminate my work. It was morning, but behold, now it is evening, and nothing worth reporting has been done.
 

The problem with these scientists is they only ever look at the fractions relevant to their single discipline and this way ending up giving prognoses that are guided by the baselines of their narrow view.

Given the fact 'the biochar initiative' is actually trying to grow crops on to of the improved soil structure we can assume there will be plants producing oxygen.

The real issue is chopping down the last real rainforests, sealing the ground with artificial structures, global industry expanding ruthlessly without ever really second guessing the long term impact etc pp.

Biochar won't hurt us im pretty sure of, how could it, will it solves mankind's issues alone, probably not.
Will it improve your soil, probably yes.
But we'll have to at least understand the principles it works by.

Scientists are just humans spending time trying to prove or disprove single points and most often fail to recognize a bigger picture, also it's not rare that they are on the leash of a payroll, after all someone will have to pay these studies and if you pay for something you usually look for a return in some way.
Just saying...
 
The problem with these scientists is they only ever look at the fractions relevant to their single discipline and this way ending up giving prognoses that are guided by the baselines of their narrow view.

Given the fact 'the biochar initiative' is actually trying to grow crops on to of the improved soil structure we can assume there will be plants producing oxygen.

The real issue is chopping down the last real rainforests, sealing the ground with artificial structures, global industry expanding ruthlessly without ever really second guessing the long term impact etc pp.

Biochar won't hurt us im pretty sure of, how could it, will it solves mankind's issues alone, probably not.
Will it improve your soil, probably yes.
But we'll have to at least understand the principles it works by.

Scientists are just humans spending time trying to prove or disprove single points and most often fail to recognize a bigger picture, also it's not rare that they are on the leash of a payroll, after all someone will have to pay these studies and if you pay for something you usually look for a return in some way.
Just saying...
I think these guys are trying to point out the error that the scientists you are talking about have made.
That sequestering carbon in the soil is not the answer to climate change.

Permaculture is not mainstream and certainly not paid for by big corporations.

Paid science is suggesting that the sequestering carbon initiative is a win, it would appear to be another fallacy that paid science is inflicting upon us..

I have another problem with Biochar.
After the gases have been released in the making of Bio Char (especially pit bio char) you are in negative territory as far as emissions go and only growing crops will bring you back to a net advantage.
Adding compost to your soil is a far friendlier way of improving your soil over time.
It's harder work but it is better for our environment.

 
Well I don't mind the CO2 emissions thing too much as I've stated previously I believe plant growth can and will regulate that to a certain degree.

Biochar how I perceive it is not meant to be a trade off for compost at all, the opposite is the case - it should be used to improve soil in combination with compost.

There are also fast ways to compost like the hot composting or using Bokashi and work it into soil which can shave off some months, too.

But I get your point, a single ingredient won't save the world.
But it can support the microbes and fungi that help doing so by providing crisis proof housing and that imo is a job for biochar.
 
I take your point and will just add that the greatest benefit is in depleted poor ground, which there is plenty of in the world

However, in rich, well-drained soil with adequate organic matter it reportedly makes negligible difference.

I remember the first plant I grew as a teenager. My father suggested I dig a hole and add a half bucket of wood ashes from the fire place and a bucket of chicken bedding.
Mixed that with the native soil that was poor quality, lousy drainage and no organic content, but that hole grew a very nice plant.
Healthy through the whole growing season.

And while I'm waffling on I might also add that organic gardening practices can be very useful for those that grow in the great outdoors.
A simple way of improving your soil that you plant into in Spring is to plant broad beans in Autumn.
They set nitrogen from the atmosphere into the soil and they also open up the soil in a good way and their mulch once the beans are picked is A+
Lasts along time if spread on the surface to help protect the soil from the harshness of the sun and can be dug in after harvest.

 
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The tip with the beans is great, Mr.Tao from Top Tao Seeds told me about back in the day and it even has more benefits than nitrogen fixation (and the fact we get another harvest of a useful plat) it also builds a layer of defence against slugs as the beans planted around your crop will become food for them and so the more precious crop may gets spared.

To be fair I never did it.
I planted other things -soil around my ex guerilla spot was so lousy I had to build a rugged SIP system I call the Krautfass to be abled to grow a crop and had to bring soil and water.
The only free thing was the sun.

I used to plant chervil which also seemed to repell many of the unwanted guests but I recognized even without I had no mentionable attacks happening with the SIP.

Not sure how deep you dove into the topic of biochar and Terra Pretty principles, after all it was just in recent years that is has been kinda reverse engineered and really investigated and new things keep popping up so it may be worth to look at it again.

If the soil is already great that's fine, doesn't mean it can't be further improved tho.
There are some biochar offers that make sense and some that don't, just like any other principle or product that gets introduced to the public. I truly believe used with consciousness and intent it can change some things for the better.

We have so much depleted, overly compacted, clay or sand heavy soils and deserts already - there is really much room for improvement on our planet and many use cases for biochar.
For me I'll start with small steps like getting rid of industry products where I can (bottled nutes etc pp) an rather close the Ressource Gap by implementing organic ways (and of course natural minerals) into my mix and try to built it for long term use and gradual improvement with amount of time used instead of getting rid of it every cycle.
A clean carbon matrix has been proven to provide certain benefits that can't be negated.

Of course it's not the only way to do so, being dogmatic is something I try to avoid as an open mind is necessary to understand.

You mentioned the ash and chicken bedding, I've seen a great use case where biochar and EM1 have been used in a production chicken farm for the buckets where the chickenshit is collected, it neutralized the smell and made it less sharp and was more or less just one step away (the step of implementing it into soil) from being a great soil amendment.
The EM also help break down pathogens while the char helps building a beneficial biofilm and gives it more fluffy humus like structure.
Definitely something I look forward to try in the future, I've used fresh chicken manure and boy it's nasty and attracts a lot of flys...but is a great fertilizer.
 
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The tip with the beans is great, Mr.Tao from Top Tao Seeds told me about back in the day and it even has more benefits than nitrogen fixation (and the fact we get another harvest of a useful plat) it also builds a layer of defence against slugs as the beans planted around your crop will become food for them and so the more precious crop may gets spared.

To be fair I never did it.
I planted other things -soil around my ex guerilla spot was so lousy I had to build a rugged SIP system I call the Krautfass to be abled to grow a crop and had to bring soil and water.
The only free thing was the sun.

I used to plant chervil which also seemed to repell many of the unwanted guests but I recognized even without I had no mentionable attacks happening with the SIP.

Not sure how deep you dove into the topic of biochar and Terra Pretty principles, after all it was just in recent years that is has been kinda reverse engineered and really investigated and new things keep popping up so it may be worth to look at it again.

If the soil is already great that's fine, doesn't mean it can't be further improved tho.
There are some biochar offers that make sense and some that don't, just like any other principle or product that gets introduced to the public. I truly believe used with consciousness and intent it can change some things for the better.

We have so much depleted, overly compacted, clay or sand heavy soils and deserts already - there is really much room for improvement on our planet and many use cases for biochar.
For me I'll start with small steps like getting rid of industry products where I can (bottled nutes etc pp) an rather close the Ressource Gap by implementing organic ways (and of course natural minerals) into my mix and try to built it for long term use and gradual improvement with amount of time used instead of getting rid of it every cycle.
A clean carbon matrix has been proven to provide certain benefits that can't be negated.

Of course it's not the only way to do so, being dogmatic is something I try to avoid as an open mind is necessary to understand.

You mentioned the ash and chicken bedding, I've seen a great use case where biochar and EM1 have been used in a production chicken farm for the buckets where the chickenshit is collected, it neutralized the smell and made it less sharp and was more or less just one step away (the step of implementing it into soil) from being a great soil amendment.
The EM also help break down pathogens while the char helps building a beneficial biofilm and gives it more fluffy humus like structure.
Definitely something I look forward to try in the future, I've used fresh chicken manure and boy it's nasty and attracts a lot of flys...but is a great fertilizer.
Broad beans are traditionally grown over the winter months.

The chicken bedding was well aged chicken shit mixed with straw and household kitchen scraps that the chickens picked through. It was fully composted under the fresh straw. So ready to use. I would expect problems from the acidity of fresh chicken shit especially in pots. It may be that the alkalinity of the wood ash and the acidity of the chicken bedding created a good ph for the plant to thrive in.

I added a commercial bio char to my indoor soil mix once and ended up with micro nutrient deficiencies as the bio char raised the ph out of range.

What bothers me about this push for bio char is that the people that are pushing it in the carbon credit space are shonky as hell and have proven track records to suggest this.


One other point is that a few years ago they brought in laws stopping wood burners from being able to be shut down completely as the gases that are produced in a fire with little to no oxygen are quite dangerous to our environment.
 
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