Lineage of MH/SSH/NH

[L33t]

Hiya shanti , hope all is well. This is a long post so please bear with me

just to clear the air from confusion and before you all go making a legend from myth here is how it was done and is done still....
-Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969
-SSH is made up of Haze C combined to Skunk 1 or Skunk HzC which is the male side, the female side is Haze C combined to NL5 or NL5HzC
-Mango comes from a parallel cross same as SSH but with one difference
Haze A male combined to Sk 1 or Sk HzA being the male plant, the female is NL5HzC....that is the breeding of those three plants
-La Nina is the widow father breed to a pure Haze female...neither A or C by the way so I hope that clears up all your doubts once and for all.

After reading your most recent post quoted above , where you cleared things up on the MH/SSH/NH genetic makeup , I did some research and I find myself to be still confused, below here are some of the reasons:

- In an old post I read ...:

All these descriptions have been written by myself or Neville so they will represent the strain as accurately as our experience goes.
"MR NICE SEEDBANK; ‘MANGO HAZE’
This strain is a parallel line to the Super Silver Haze, i.e. it has the same Haze father and the mother is a sister of the SSH.

( quote from : http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=16341 , the same info can be found in the current mns website strains description )

- On another post you wrote in the past with similar info, I read that the SSH and MangoHaze have the same father but different mother ... :

"......When Nev had found the female line to breed to the haze male to create SSH there was alot of testing and sampling done by quite some legends....Mango is a parallel cross of the SSH.That means the same father but different mothers from the same generation that SSH's mother originated from.Lets say you have two sisters and they had children with the same man...basically...."

- ..but now I read they have the same mother but different father :

"SSH is made up of Haze C combined to Skunk 1 or Skunk HzC which is the male side, the female side is Haze C combined to NL5 or NL5HzC

the Mango comes from a parallel cross same as SSH but with one difference Haze A male combined to Sk 1 or Sk HzA being the male plant, the female is NL5HzC...."

This is confusing me.On older posts I read that SSH and Mango Haze have the same father.. but now I read they have the same mother instead...This is contradicting information , if I understand things correctly and do not misinterpret your posts. From my understanding only one of the above posts can have the correct info....Could you please elaborate?


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- By the way I still don't understand one more thing , this time regarding the 'Neville'sHaze x Mango'. Could you please explain to me how can it have 50% HazeC in it ??

'' 'Neville's Haze x Mango Haze' =
Family of breed: 12.5% Skunk, 25% NL5, 12.5% Haze A male, 50% Haze C male''

If NHxMH is a direct cross between NH and MH , it could only have 50%HazeC in it if Neville's Haze did not have any HazeA and has only hazeC.
But in your latest post you said Nev'sHaze does have HazeA and you wrote that 'Neville'sHaze' is : HazeC x (NL5HazeA)
and 'MangoHaze' is : (SkHazeA) x (NL5HazeC)If this post has accurate info..and NHxMH is a direct cross between NH and MH then in my opinion the correct info on the 'NH x MH' percentages should be more like : NHxMH = 12.5% Sk , 25% NL5 , 25% HazeA and 37.5% HazeC. So if the most recent post you wrote is correct , then the Nevilles haze x Mango description on the mns website doesn't seem right to me ..or else there is some info I am not aware of or perhaps I didn't understand something right.

Now ,if the NHxMH percentages you wrote for NHxMH on the strain descriptions are actually right and I am mistaken , then I believe I am not aware of some info about this cross. For example perhaps the 'Neville'sHaze x Mango Haze' is not actually a direct cross between Neville's Haze and Mango Haze as I always believed (from my assumptions from the limited info found on the mns website strain descriptions and other places) but in reality is a more complex hybrid between NH and MH.If that is the case, that would clear my confusion and I would be really interesting to learn what exact cross it is. A few more assumptions in order to try to match your numbers: Perhaps 'NH x MH' is actually : NH x (NH x MH) or if 'NH x MH' was : MH x (NH x MH) ...again none of these two cases give 50%HazeC in order to match the current 'official' description percentages in 'Neville'sHazexMangoHaze'.
So if your numbers on NHxMH's description are accurate and NHxMH has 50%HazeC then I can only assume this strain is an even more complex hybrid or most probably has some other plants in it apart from just Neville's Haze and Mango Haze...
Anyway it would be great if you could pop in and clear things up. Thank you for taking the time to share all these strain details... I know this is a long post but I would really appreciate if you took the time to answer my questions as its really great for me to learn more things about the background of different mns strains. Keep up spreading fine genetics all over the world and thanks for your time.
Have fun.. L33t

 

[JessE]

This is confusing me.On older posts I read that SSH and Mango Haze have the same father.. but now I read they have the same mother instead...This is contradicting information , if I understand things correctly and do not misinterpret your posts. From my understanding only one of the above posts can have the correct info....Could you please elaborate?

Hey L33t,



I think I may be able to help clear up some of the confusion for you, they dont have the same mother plant,there are two different NL5HzC mother plants. Sisters. Having talked with quite a few members privately I have found this kind of information is very confusing for even the most experienced growers. I think the reason you interpreted all of that as having the same mother, is because you werent recognizing the fact there are two different mother plants because their pedigree's are both NL5HzC. So on paper, the pedigree's will look identical even when talking about seperate plants.

I was lucky enough to be one of the original Mango Haze Beta Seeds testers, many years ago now. Im still in possession of those beans to this day actually, having grown them I can tell you they were just fucking amazing! Astonishing even! The main thing I want to concentrate on, is the ultimate lineage of the Mango Haze. The Original beta test seeds Mango Haze was a parallel line to the Super Silver Haze. Their pedigree's were very similar, but with some slight difference. Essentially, the Mango Haze pedigree on the male side was the same father as Super Silver Haze. Which ofcourse, is Skunk HzC.

But the difference between Mango Haze and Super Silver Haze is, the sister of the mother of Super Silver Haze was used to create Mango Haze. So we have two different female NL5HzC here in the equation, one is the mother of SSH and the other is the mother of Mango haze. Sister Mother plants.

So the original Beta test seeds lineage was

Originally Posted by shantibaba
"......When Nev had found the female line to breed to the haze male to create SSH there was alot of testing and sampling done by quite some legends....Mango is a parallel cross of the SSH.That means the same father but different mothers from the same generation that SSH's mother originated from.Lets say you have two sisters and they had children with the same man...basically...."

What I think has happened, is the quotes you've dug up here correspond to that of the Beta Test seeds, which ofcourse were just that. Test seeds. And the lineage was ultimately tweaked by MNS later down the road, for todays version of Mango Haze. Which ofcourse, is now apparently Skunk x Hz A, as the father of Mango Haze instead of the Original Beta test Seeds father of Skunk x Hz C.

Originally Posted by shantibaba
just to clear the air from confusion and before you all go making a legend from myth here is how it was done and is done still....

-Mango comes from a parallel cross same as SSH but with one difference
Haze A male combined to Sk 1 or Sk HzA being the male plant, the female is NL5HzC....that is the breeding of those three plants

So having established that the Orginal beta test seeds pedigree for Mango Haze contained the same father as Super Silver Haze, Skunk x Hz C and that the Mango Haze released on the market today has a Skunk x Hz A as the father we can assume the reason for the two contradictions is the pedigree was just simply changed. The constant in the equation is the NL5HzC, but there are two different mother plants for the respected SSH and Mango Varietys.


It can be a little complicated, I know. But it does appear as if a change was made on the father side of the Beta Test Seed Mango haze compared to the Mango Haze on the market today. It sounded like Shanti was adament about stopping the confusion and the making of legends from myths when he wrote about the pedigree's, so it only seems logical to assume the father plants were simply changed in between the times the Beta test Seeds were being discussed and the variety available today.

This is a very special Mango Haze pheno, the most Indica dominant Mango Haze Ive grown to date.

The Beta Test Seeds all yielded some monster plants, quite tall and branchy that reaked of Mangos from even an early age. They produced monster yields, of nice resin coated golf ball sized nugs. Hundreds of bud sites, and all of the buds tasted like Mango. We're talking the real deal, quite possibly the best Marijuana Ive ever grown. But they took a long time, 17+ weeks easy but worth every second of it! So its quite surprising to see a pheno Indica in nature, when I was use to seeing monster Sativas pop out from the Mango Haze beta test seeds!


Hope I helped clear some of the confusion up

 

[L33t]

Hi Jesse

First of all let me thank you very much for your reply.

What you say makes absolute sense to me.It explains everything basically and no I don't find what you say confusing at all. I ve spend quite some time thinking , trying to explain why the posts from shanti seemed 'contradicting' in the first place but always found myself in a dead end.

If what you say is the case , which must be , then that would explain my confusion and also prove that shanti was not posting contradicting info , it just seemed like , to me and others that didn't know there are 2 different NL#5Haze plants which just happen to be named the same. But that wasn't all ! ..the different SkHaze plants , the SkHazeA and the SkHazeC in the Released vs Beta MH version was what I and most were missing.That also explains why when we chatted together about the different aromas we experienced with MH, we couldn't 'agree' 100% . And If I remember correctly that was the case when I chatted about aromas with Hempy who also ran the Beta MH.

By the way thats a very nice looking MH you have there. She looks very healthy and happy under the sun!

 

[L33t]

PS.

I think I may be able to help clear up some of the confusion for you, they dont have the same mother plant,there are two different NL5HzC mother plants. Sisters. Having talked with quite a few members privately I have found this kind of information is very confusing for even the most experienced growers. I think the reason you interpreted all of that as having the same mother, is because you werent recognizing the fact there are two different mother plants because their pedigree's are both NL5HzC. So on paper, the pedigree's will look identical even when talking about seperate plants.

If you see my #4 post in my 'HazyHaze' thread, I had edited that post few months ago , and I had posted the very same thing you say today about the existence of 2 different NL#5HazeC plants!
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=582 Let me copy here what I had posted when I had re edited that post :

The only thing I can think of , is that perhaps that the NL5HazeC in these strains is different.So basically I can pressume the NL5HazeC in SSH is different than the NL5HazeC used in MangoHaze. So thats why you say their mothers are sisters

But , even though I had though of that , that wasn't enough to explain everything ! What I hadn't imagined was the possibility of MH parents to have changed over time (beta test seeds vs market released version).

Which ofcourse, is now apparently Skunk x Hz A, as the father of Mango Haze instead of the Original Beta test Seeds father of Skunk x Hz C.

This also explains now , how the 'Neville'sHaze x MangoHaze' strain can have 50% Haze'C' in it.

We know Neville'sHaze is : [NL#5 Haze'A'] x [Haze 'C']

So if we assume that the Old/Beta Test MH seed (the version which is [SkHaze'C'] x [NL#5 Haze'C'] ) was used in that cross , and do the maths ..all the pieces come together and at last we get the same result on NHxMH as Shanti writes in his description! :

NH x MH = 12.5% Skunk, 25% NL5, 12.5% Haze A male, 50% Haze C male''

Now if all we say is the real case , only question left is whether the NHxMH that made it to the market uses indeed the old/Beta MH version or if it uses the new/released MH version with SkHaze'A' in it.

Thanx again for helping solve the..riddle

l33t

 

[SupraSPL]

Thanks for working that issue through. When trying to decide between SSH and MH it is helpful to know SSH is HzC only and MH has both A (colom dom) and C (thai dom).

 

[itsbenfun]

Nice eye...I hope the (AC) has the power its claimed too

 

[L33t]

hi SupraSPL and itsbenfun,

this is an old thread and since the time it was posted, we had some new info come up.

MNS SSH is : (NL5 x HzC) X (SK1 x HzC). The NL5xHaze in SSH , is the mother of SSH and this female plant is named NL5Hz1.

MNS Mango Haze is : (NL5 x HzC) X (SK1 x HzA). The NL5xHaze in MH , is the mother of MH and this female plant is named NL5Hz122. This female plant is called 'Mango Haze' or simply 'Mango'.

The mothers of SSH and MH seedlines , NL5Hz1 and NL5Hz122 respectively , are 2 different female plants , but both come from the same 2 parents : a male Haze , the Haze 'C' , and a female Northern Lights plant , NL5 to be exact. So NL5Hz1 and NL5Hz122 have the same father , which is the Haze 'C' male plant. NL5Hz1 and NL5122 both come from same batch of NL5HzC seeds. As Nevil explained these 2 plants were the best plants from 1000s of NL5HzC seeds.

So what Shanti was saying here below about the same (Haze) parent..did not actually refer to Mango Haze Seedline....but to the 'Mango Haze', or simply called 'Mango' female clone , the NL5Hz122 , which is mother of MH..and to the mother of SSH , NL5Hz1:

"MR NICE SEEDBANK; ‘MANGO HAZE’
This strain is a parallel line to the Super Silver Haze, i.e. it has the same Haze father and the mother is a sister of the SSH.

So basically in reality half of the above post (text part in green) from Shanti refered to the father of the mother of MH seedline , in other words refered to the father of the NL5Hz122 , the HzC male.
..while the second half of Shanti's post (text in purple) refered to the mother of the MH seedline , the NL5Hz122.

Shanti's wording was not the best and thats where confusion started from.
Similar case below:

"......When Nev had found the female line to breed to the haze male to create SSH there was alot of testing and sampling done by quite some legends....Mango is a parallel cross of the SSH.That means the same father but different mothers from the same generation that SSH's mother originated from.Lets say you have two sisters and they had children with the same man...basically...."

The first half post (green text) refered to the father of the mother of the MH seedline , in other words refered to the father of the NL5Hz122 clone...which is the Haze C male,
NOT to the father of MH seedline( which is SK1HzA )...which is what the readers aparently thought when read Shantis post.

But the second half of Shanti's above post (text in purple) refered to the MH seedline mother , in other words second half post refered to the NL5Hz122 female plant.

So after understanding/realizing that the first halves of Shanti's posts refered to the father of the mother of MH seedline..while the other halves of his posts refered to the mothers of the SSH and MH seedlines (NL5Hz1 and NL5Hz122 respectivelly), I can say that I now understand what Shanti was actually trying to post/explain..but the info was posted in a manner that was very confusing for the reader.

Hope this post helped a bit clear the confusion

l33t

 

[Hazy Lady]

Great unravelling L33t , as always quality info from you.

JessE

. Im still in possession of those beans to this day actually, having grown them I can tell you they were just fucking amazing! Astonishing even

They grew but remained with you huh!, they must have been effing magic JessE

 

[SupraSPL]

Thnx L33t that explains a lot. I can see how that could be easily confused when posting or reading about.

 

[bigherb]

SUP UNC


just wanted to say that was a great post .im sure it will be very useful to fully understand the backrounds on both these strains



1luvbigherb

 

[joshuahazen]

SUP UNC


just wanted to say that was a great post .im sure it will be very useful to fully understand the backrounds on both these strains



1luvbigherb

I was wondering about the SSH. Are the other seedbank strains of SSH the same? I asked because my experience with SSH was a variety I smoked in Amsterdam. It looked like dynamite, and was quite stony, but really didn't strike me as very Hazy.

 

[cannatari]

Good read. I feel better now about my misunderstandings. I too read SB's comment "Different mothers"...and I was like "But the X reads different fathers...wtf am I missing? How could I have it backwards twice and still be wrong?" LOL! I had it right all along but I kept seeing SB's quote everywhere without the beta test and release batches being specified. Thanks for clearing it up fellas. This is as deep as I need to go on this subject.

 

[wonkadonk]

I was wondering about the SSH. Are the other seedbank strains of SSH the same? I asked because my experience with SSH was a variety I smoked in Amsterdam. It looked like dynamite, and was quite stony, but really didn't strike me as very Hazy.

SSH having both skunk1 and NL5 in it can vary greatly. The heavier yielders are more NL5 / skunk dominant. These ones tend to have less of the haze high. The haziest ones take longer to flower, and yield less. So you usually don't find any for sale. Unless you know someone

If you want the Haze high without having to deal with Neville's Haze. Your best bet is probably a Hazy pheno of Afghan Haze. I hear the Skunk Haze can be pretty incredible too.