How to get those tough and old seeds to germinate

Kodiak

New member
How to get those tough and old seeds to germinate (and other topics)

Old seeds or seeds with a very thick outer shell can sometimes fail to germinate because the seed coat is so hard or thick that the moisture never gets inside the seed in order to trigger germination, or even if the seed germinates, the taproot lacks the strength to crack the coat.

Here are two really easy tricks how to get high germination rates with basically any seed.

Method 1:

Take a really sharp knife, a scalpel or maybe a carpet knife will do. Something really sharp anyway, the smaller the blade the better as this is precision work. Hold the seed between your fingers and chip the outer shell / seed coat at the bottom (sharp end) or in the middle. This will expose the "seed embryo" to the moisture of the paper towel. If you chip the seed coat at the top, the taproot might try to work it's way to the other side inside the shell and usually the seed dies before it succeeds. The trick here is not to hurt the innards of the seed in any way. If you chip too deep you end up slicing the embryonic seed and then it's goodbye for that one.

I chipped this seed two hours ago and it is already germinating.



Using this method I have managed to get high germination rates with really old seeds. People said that they got 0% germination rates with the Skunkman's oldschool Durban Poison x Skunk #1 freebies that were handed out with orders. Using this method I got about 75% of the seeds to germinate within a day or two.

It's a gamble but if done carefully it will work almost every time.

Method 2:

This is the safer option with less change of ruining the seed. It might take a little bit longer for the seed to germinate than with method 1 but still pretty fast compared to regular germination.

Use fine grain sand paper and carefully thin out the seed coat until it looks like there is only a very fine layer of the outer shell left. That's it.


Both methods increase germination rates considerably.


Keep it Green

-Kodiak-
 
Last edited:
S

SativaFan

Guest
Good info.

If you're shakey like I am, then method #2 is probably best:D

SativaFan
 

Kodiak

New member
Yeah, I'm a coffee tweaker :D during the day so I'm also a bit shaky but I still prefer method #1 because the results are almost instant. Not to say that I haven't ruined a few seeds this way but then again I wouldn't try this on very expensive or rare seeds.

It's basically just a backup thing to do when there is no sign of progress for days on end.

Heat also speeds up the germination process. I usually use the paper towel method and keep the seeds inside a box with a lid. I keep the box on the radiator or on top of the HPS and when heat is supplied underneath, the box becomes an incubation chamber.
 
Last edited:
S

SativaFan

Guest
Yeah, I'm a coffee tweaker during the day so I'm also a bit shaky but I still prefer method 1 because the results are almost instant. Not to say that I haven't ruined a few seeds this way but then again I wouldn't try this on very expensive or rare seeds.

It's basically just a backup thing to do when there is no sign of progress for days on end.

Heat also speeds up the germination process. I usually use the paper towel method and keep the seeds inside a box with a lid. I keep the box on the radiator or on top of the HPS and when heat is supplied underneath, the box becomes an incubation chamber.
Yeah I was being a bit facitious....although I do drink way too much coffee.

Method #1 would give quicker results. I can see that.

Right now, I don't have to worry. I have 1000's of fresh SSH x SSH seeds. Germination is close to 100%. I do have 10 Cali Orange seeds I may want to try that with down the line. They have been in the frig since may 07. I dunno when I'll get to them. I can only grow out 4-5 plants at a time max; 3 is usually better.

I just have to make one more seed order. Get some MH, NH, maybe NL#5 x Haze, and OH. Then I'll have enough haze and haze hybrids to last me a lifetime.

SativaFan
 

Kodiak

New member
Good thing with those SSH x SSH seeds.

I still have a few unpopped in the freezer, I'll get to them eventually.

Right now I'm sprouting Skunk#1/ O.Haze, Thai/Haze x Skunk#1 (Thunk), Destroyer, The Pure and The Original Haze seeds. A few of each. I'm hoping that I'll get at least one strong male from the bunch that I'll cross to my SSH female. Gave some though to making SSH F1's but thought it would be cool to see what comes out of the mix. Especially since I have that mostly NH Sativa pheno of SSH.

I still have Sensi's NL#5 x Haze and Oltimer's Haze in the fridge, I'll run those at another time. I figured that Oldtimer's Haze deserves a special run. Planning on ordering some Mango Haze and Neville's Haze as well. That should pretty much cover it. The Flying Dutchmen's Thai-Tanic (Skunk#1 x Chocolate Thai Sativa) is so affordable that I'll probably order some of that too.

The closest thing I could find to the original 1977 Aeric Cali-O cut was Chimeras Calizahr. The Cali-O has been crossed with Shiskaberry Red.

ACE seeds really have some cool oldschool genetics. Their Tikal (Kush/Haze x Guatemala Jungle Sativa), Orient Express (Chinese Yunnan x Vietnam Black '77 Sativa) and Panama are interesting strains. Oltimer's Haze seems to have the same genetic makeup as The Original Haze but apparently the parents originate from different sources, and they just made a fresh run with their purple and green hazes.

Purple Haze :cool:

I didn't plan on growing haze or sativa dominant plants many grows in a row but somehow I got stuck and now I can't stop :D

..on second thought, I think I'll run some more SSH after all.. and Oldtimer's Haze.. If I end up with a bunch of females I can always keep them in veg and do some serious LST on them before I flower them.

So little time and so many strains. The most I can run at one time is 8 plants, half of that if I want them to have some space to grow. I get the best result with only 2 or 3 plants at the time. Then I can really scrog them properly.

All the best with your current and future projects.

-Kodiak-
 
Last edited:
S

SativaFan

Guest
I wish I had the room to grow a bunch like that.

And that's my thinking as well to use a good haze male, or haze hybrid male to pollinate whatever else is growing.

Myunderstanding is that's what many folks do with haze. use the males for pollination.

I guess it's cause I'm OLD. I love the high sativas/hazes produce. I need some more variety though. I have 4 Skunk Haze seeds left. If I don't get some new seeds soon, I may sprout the Skunk Haze and use a SkHaze male to pollinate my SSH x SSH females.

I don't really care what I get since I'm just growing for me and g/f and a few friends(who don't know I grow). They all think my weed is great. I think it's more that my weed is so different than the commercial weed around here. Fresh, cured well, not all fucked up and dry like the commercial stuff around here tends to be.

SativaFan
 
Last edited:

Kodiak

New member
Yeah, it's down to mother nature now. I'll cross my SSH with whatever comes my way. I didn't figure most of the seeds would germinate but they did and now I'm going to have more plants than I have room for. Guess I'll have to start working on a second grow room. I use one 200w daylight cfl for seedlings and young plants, which makes them nice and thick as long as I keep them close to the light, good thing I bought a spare as I will need it now.

I also have a smaller room away from the rest where I am making Lowryder and Diesel Ryder seeds for future outdoor projects.

I'm also looking for good mothers to add to my current collection. So far I only have an Ingemar's Punch mother that is very strong.

I also grow for myself and a few friends and I don't ask as much for it as people who don't know them. I have gotten lots of compliments on my bud, mainly because they said that the quality is way beyond what they can get elsewhere. Seems like people are always in a hurry to harvest, I go by what the plant tells me. If it takes 20 weeks to finish, well then it takes 20 weeks to finish. If I wanted fast crops I would grow some pure indica like Mazar-I-Sharif, Hindu Kush or Black Domina (which are all waiting in the fridge).

I have a sort of scientific, botanists view on the whole thing. Like growing Black Roses. I learn and marvel at the potential of this plant. I also grow tobacco, chili and a bunch of vegetables outdoors in the field but no plant is as interesting as cannabis. The sweet taste of organically grown vegetables on the other hand, is sort of a happy trip in itself. You can't get vegetables like that at the store. Mainly because the fruit starts converting sugars to starch as soon as it is plucked from the plant. Freshly picked is the best.

Here is a picture that I call "Lettuce of the damned". If you look closely at the center, there is something strange going on in this picture.



Just the way the light hits it I guess. Spooky.

...

Complex aromas and tastes, coupled with the exceptional production of resin glands makes cannabis one cool alien in deed. Tobacco also creates some kind of resin glands once it matures, as it becomes really sticky. I grew some virginian tobacco that are used in cigarettes, as well as the severely more potent "Holy Indian Tobbacco" or Mapacho. My hands went numb just by touching the plant, and it brought on a sort psychedelic/visual and racing high for 15 minutes or so. Too overwhelming in a way so after that I wore gloves. The smoke from the virginian brought on a nicely elevated clarity-high.

Strange stuff that homegrown tobacco. I stumbled upon a study that claimed that tobbacco plants can either produce cancerogenic or anti-cancerogenic compunds depending on how it's grown and cured. If that is correct it means that I could grow healthy tobacco if I used the right technique. Not something the tobaccco industry would be interested in. It never made any sense to me why they want to kill off their customers by adding stuff like hydrogen-cyanide to their product, but I guess it's so easy to get addicted that they don't care if they lose a customer here and there. Go figure..


My main goal is always quality, I guess I value smell, taste and even appearence of the bud over potency somewhat. I think it's much nicer to smoke something that tastes and smells sweet although it doesn't send you eye-high-in-the-sky, but fortunately my SSH covers all of the above.

Yeah, slow curing is the way to tasty bud. First slowly by air and then in mason jars for several months.

That oldschool Skunk/Haze should be really potent stuff. They rate the potency somewhere between 20-22%, so crossing it to SSH will most likely yield some really potent offspring.

-Kodiak-
 
Last edited:
S

SativaFan

Guest
"I have a sort of scientific, botanists view on the whole thing. Like growing Black Roses. I learn and marvel at the potential of this plant. "

I understand. I used to grow roses when I lived back east. I grew the "Black" variety too. The one from Jackson Perkins?

Black Spot was a real bitch on roses where I used to live. Humidity sucked and roses don't like excessive humidity. IME, they do best in absolute wide open FULL sun where air crculation is best. Norfolk Virginia has a nice rose garden at the Botancical Gardens.

Japanese beatles were a pain too. Around my area, they came 4th of July+-. They burrow right into the heart of the rose bud too, total destruction :(

If you like the more scientific/technical approach, you'd like that book I've been talking about, Teaming With Microbes by Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis.

I'm convinced that growing weed organically, using the largest variety of nutrient sources you can....is the way to bring out the more subtle aspects of cannabis.

Sure you can grow plants with far simpler organic regimes. Some use just Blood Meal, Bone Meal, Kelp Meal. And that's about it. And they have successful grows.

However, after reading Teaming With Microbes I'm convinced that one will get the most out ones plants by providing the biggest variety of nutrients possible. This allows the plant to seek out ALL(or nearly all :) ) of what it needs, thus allowing the genetics to fully express themselves.

Obviously, I can't "prove" that is how it happens, but after reading the book, I'd bet on it.


For example....If the plant produces an exudate that ultimately "requests" a particular ion or group of ions be brought up into the plant to produce a particular complex cannabinoid...What happens if your soil mix doesn't have that ion(s) the plant "wants" at the time it wants it.

I don't know the answer. Plants obviously "cope" since people grow cannabis in very simple grows, especially those doing successful, straight up chemical grows.

So that's why my next grow(s) will focus on building the best soil I can, then feed it with a variety of organics using compost teas, liquid wormcastings, etc. The idea being my plants will have a huge variety of sources of each macro nutrient and micro nutes. Then as the plant's "genetic clock/code" unwinds during the growing process, no "request" of nutes will be denied. Thus allowing the plant to express its genetics as fully as possible.

What do ya think?
A good Stoner theory if nothing eles huh? :)

SativaFan
 
Last edited:

Kodiak

New member
Thanks, I'll look into that book. Good title!

I mainly grow plants that produce crops at the moment, picking and eating the ripe fruit of any plant is very satisfying. Pests can do some pretty horrible things to plants. I grew some corn some years back and they weren't developing properly so I took a closer look and broke off a cob in the middle, there was this fat caterpillar munching away at the heart with a busted! look on it's face. The thing looked like Jabba the hut :D

I agree on what you said about the nutrients. The widest range will cover all the plants needs and allow it to express it's fullest potential. This also included trace metals like iron, magnesium etc which are important for flower development and color. I happen to be on site when they were drilling for water at my parents new house. Tons of ground bedrock came out on top like fine powder in the process. I grabbed as much of it as I could and mix it in the soil along with birch ash, blood meal and bat guano. That covers the plants basic needs. Then I use dutch organic fertilizer to cover the rest, the complete BioBizz line and the supplemental BioNova line, along with liquid humus. That's something like 15 bottles of nutrients. If one wants buds with great taste and scent, organic is definitely the way to go. I have tried using synthetic fertilizers and the organic grows kick ass in every way. The synthetic ones are just too strong and hard for the plant to break down.

I use them outdoors though in combination with compost. Usually I fertilize the spot some months earlier so that other native plants have time to buffer out the nutrients in the soil. Cannabis does put up a strong fight against other plants. What I have observed is that it grows fast trying to push away the competition and it often succeeds. Planting cannabis next to say raspberry bushes or other similar plant-pioneers is good idea, that way the plants have a "neighbour" to fight with. :p



Another thing that is important to remember is mycorrhiza, the symbiotic root fungus. It increases root size, improves on resistance as well as nutrient uptake. It also works as a buffer between the plant and the soil. I read a study made by french scientist where they grew pine trees in two different locations. One site was heavily occupied by mycorrhiza and the other was not. The trees that formed a symbiotic relationship with the fungus grew twice as big twice as fast and were overall more healthy. This fungus has had a relationship with plants for over 400 million years so I'm sure it works. There are hundreds of different types of mycorrrhiza that target different plants but I read somewhere that cannabis can form a symbiotic relationship with most of them since it's a weed (again one more things that it does better than most plants). You can buy regular garden mycorrhiza in big buckets that will last you a long time. I mainly reuse the soil I had during my last grow, just adding more basic nutrients. That way the mycorrhiza is already firmly established in the soil and will get boosted by the availability of new nutrients. Then I feed the plants nutrients when needed. The size and color of the leaves pretty much tell the story of how the plant is doing.

Sometimes I even bring earth worms to my indoors soil. They tunnel and munch on the soil, effectively improving on it without hurting the plants. It's good to think outside the box.

I guess that in environments where a lesser variety of nutrients are available, the plant conforms to using the readily available compound to a greater extent, but I still believe that it suffers from "malnutrition". How this and stress in general affects potency can be disputed, but by comparison to humans, the individual that is put under stress is also most likely to reach it's full potential, while the "lazy" one might not "bother".

Now we come to the thing that I ponder the most. This is to what extent indoor plants are capable of synthesizing fully realized THC without the presence of the sun and it's uv-b rays. I believe potency is the sum of two things, mainly it's genetically encoded but the synthesis is also affected by environmental factors. Say "how much" correlating with "how good". Cannabis synthesis goes like this if I remember correctly:

Lesser cannabinoids --> CBG (cannabigerol) from here it is independently processed into either:

1. CBC (Cannabichromene), non psycho active "energy-storage" compound which is readily converted back to CBG if needed.

2. CBD (Cannabidiol), the body stone effect, which is the precursor of THC. It also affects how the THC hits us, effectively improving on the high. (So high THC low CBD isn't necessarily a good thing).

CBD --> THC

THC is quite a complex compound that binds to several cannabinoid receptors in the brain in various ways depending on the presence of other cannabinoids. The rate and quality the synthesized THC is also dependent on the availability of nutrients, environmental factors like humidity etc.. I like to keep a very dry environment during flowering because I believe that promotes THC synthesis.

THC has many uses for the plant, including fighting off pests (pesticide), prevention of dessication either by the means of reflecting away solar radiation (mirrors) or was it that thc trichomes actually bind solar energy so that it will not harm or cause mutations in the plant, and to some degree keep the buds dry due to the fact that THC oils are hydrophobic.

Now, the reason why many scientist have proclaimed that uv-b radiation is important is because it fully activates the CBG --> THC synthesis. Not only that, but it can also activate a secondary metabolic pathway, which means that the road to THC synthesis becomes a "dual-lane" one. Twice the production that is. No matter how you twist it, I bet that cannabis grown on the top of the Himalayas is always more potent than indoor bud.

CBD --> THC --> CBD, in late flowering and with trichome age, THC is converted back to CBD. This also means that the THC on buds sitting in a jar will also eventually degrade into CBD. It might taste great and be smooth smoke but probably less potent than when it was harvested.

The whole process of THC synthesis is naturally heavily dependent on the sum of all the factors, but providing optimal soil goes a long way, so I think it's always wise to give the plant a good start.

I know that's bit of a read, but I take this stuff more seriously than my job :D

-Kodiak-
 
Last edited:
B

barletta

Guest
Damn, it IS my job, and I don't take it THAT seriously :D

You guys know too much. I have seen enough movies to know what happens to guys who know too much :p

Oh, and HELL YEAH bout the outdoor (@ elevation...) being unmeasurably better. Even @ 40 deg, and 1k' elevation, there is no way for me to really simulate the 'full sun spectrum'. I have jars of outdoor that smell incredible compared to the same strains run indoors. The smoke is equally sassifying. My 'headstash haze' indoor jar is equal in quality to my OD jar of Shit and Spice. Take a plant from an indoor setup, and place it outside during the summer. WATCH how happy they get in the sunlight.
 
S

SativaFan

Guest
Hey guys

Barletta is so funny. He really does make a big effort on feeding his plants though. And I'm sure those who smoke his weed appreciate it.

I think we can come close to providing all the nutes plants need.

Kodiak is 100% spot on about the sun though. No way are artificial lights ever going to replicate the sun. It cannot be done. Period. Not with todays technology.

So we do the best we can with HPS/MH/CMH or combos. I have heard of guys using pet UV lights to increase trichomes. Jury is still out on that for me. Studies with clones of varying strains need to be done to prove UV lights utility to me.

SativaFan
 

Kodiak

New member
Yeah, I have way too much time to do research on this stuff :D

I think that the uv dream will still remain a dream for a long time for most indoor growers. After all, indoor bud is still very potent, so in the end it really does not make that big a difference if it works or not. But it seems like it does. Here are a few quotes:

"Pate (1983) indicated that in areas of high ultraviolet radiation exposure, the UVB (280-320 nm) absorption properties of THC may have conferred an evolutionary advantage to Cannabis capable of greater production of this compound from biogenetic precursor CBD. The extent to which this production is also influenced by environmental UVB has also been experimentally determined by Lydon et al. (1987)."

"If the UVB photon is missing from the light stream, or the intensity as expressed in µW/cm2 falls below a certain level, the phytochemical process will not be completely energized with only UVA photons which are more penetrating but less energetic, and the harvested resin spheres will have mostly precursor compounds and not fully realized THC."

"Examples of an environment where the UVB photon would be missing from the light stream include all indoor cultivation illuminated by HID bulbs and in glass or corrugated fiberglass covered greenhouses."

I did once use a reptile light during my grow but it was really weak and I did not see any significant difference between the buds that were close to it and the buds that were far away. Inconclusive. I might try some stronger medical uv-b or tanning lights at some point when I have a bigger grow room. Would probably have to run a clone comparison with the exact same setup, except for the uv-b in one room to get any kind of decent comparison.

----

Outdoor bud sure has a more feral kick IMO, the sun blasting it with light while the wind and rain beats on it all day long and that carries into the taste of the bud. I had a few monsters outside that I tied down when there was a storm coming. When I came back a few days later the plants were still standing but the poles I tied them to had snapped like twigs. The trees sure are strong, their roots go deep.

About the spectrum of light, take a look at the this picture:



We can clearly see that the chlorophyll b pigment is most active in the blue spectrum (about 450 nm wavelength) but is also active to a lesser extent in the red spectrum (about 660 nm in wavelength), and vice verca for chlorophyll a. Carotenoids also photosynthesize to a lesser extent.

I read that the plant produces more or less of a specific pigment (a or b) in it's leaves depending on the nature of the light. So if there is more blue light available the plant produces more chlorophyll b and so on. It compensates for whatever is lacking.

This shows another cool form of adaptation that the plant has.

It would also mean that providing some blue light during flowering would make for a healthier plant. That's why I like the Osram Plantastar, because it puts out about 10% of blue spectrum light. Reduces the stretch and keep the plants healthy even in late flowering.

In the end one can grow great plants without knowing any of this, as the most important thing is taking good care of the plants and they pretty much tell us what they need. All that really is needed is a green thumb and some soil, that's already a good start :D

Keep it Green

-Kodiak-
 
Last edited:
H

hempy

Guest
hi all intresting post you guys know why a lot of older seed fale ? .

Its not the seed case but the seed embrio case.

What i have seen happen with old seed is this and im talking 10 and even over 20 year old seed you will see some (Germination rates lower) just open and start to show the tap root some infact will have the tap root showing its tail then you look 12 hours later the seed is closed.

what happens is the seed embrio case sticks to the seed and in short smuthers the seed embrio and it slowly dies.

In older seed the liqued between the seed embrio and seed embrio case drys up and that needs to be removed if you stand a chance on getting any to take.

Removeing or thinning the seed case helps but you need to remove the seed embrio case thats stuck to the seed embrio what i do is place them into germ in a new clean kitchen cloth called chucks wet place into tupawear and leve lid semi open.

I leve for a week normaly i open look each day and if i see a seed start to open or expose a little of the tap root i move it away from the rest so i know wich seed it is and then leve it till the next day now one of 2 things it will do it will grow a little more exposing more of a tap root wich then all i will do is place it in rw or clean soil and gently remove seed case off it and embrio case and place under fluro only feeding it water.

If it re closes then its take seed case off exposeing seed embrio and the seed embrio case stuck to it you need to work fast and gentle fast so the seed embrio dont start to dry and gentle so you dont damage it.

I remove the embrio case slowly useing a tooth pick only gently and as i remive it you will see tap root and that is wat you place into the rw or clean soil leveing the top part of the seed embrio above the medium only cover the tap root.

A lot of work yes but so far the oldest seed i have managed to save have been from the 70s i was gifted by a friend from hawiia.

Heres the thing if they dont germinate with in a week or just over what you will find isthe seed embrio in side the seed has one to mush its doe game over so i look daily as i start to see them open or open then close i know most are at that stage of no return you do it or they die not like you have any thing to loos right.

They will take longer to start but once they start to grow may also grow slower but clones or seeds made with these plants will have explosive growth.
 

Kodiak

New member
Welcome to the thread.

Yes, now that you mention it, I have seen that before. Sometimes the taproot starts showing and a day later the seed case closes up, snapping off the taproot and the seed dies.

The seed embryo case is like a thin film, right?

Sometimes you see it stuck to the embryonic leaves even after the seedling has broken the soil. I usually remove it carefully at that point because it can be tough enough to prevent the seedling from fully spreading out the embryonic leaves.

Still, the benefit from chipping the seed case is that it takes less of an effort to crack the rest of the case open. Sometimes the taproot starts showing but the seed case remains mostly intact with only a small crack at the bottom (sharp) end. By removing a chunk of it, it is easier for the embryonic seed to crack open the rest of the seed case as the embryo swells up with moisture. Since we are talking micro scale here, I'm also guessing that while chipping the seed coat, you also end up cutting into the embryonic case as well.

But like you said, older seeds dry up and have a harder time sprouting than fresh ones. By removing both the seed case and the "film", totally exposing the embryonic seed, you probably increase the chances of getting plants to grow from older seeds.

Good info.

It's very cool that 20 or even 30 year old seeds can lay dormant for such a long time and still remain active. In nature the seeds from last season usually germinate as soon as the spring sun start warming up the earth.

Anybody have any idea how frozen seeds are affected over time? Say if I buy fresh seeds and keep them in the freezer for ten years or longer without ever taking them out. Will the same thing occur as hempy described in his post, or will the seeds remain in the same state they were at the time they i put them in the freezer? I keep silica gel and rice with the seeds in my freezer so that the environment stays free of moisture.

I read in Robert Connell Clarke's book on marijuana botany that the Food And Agriculture Organization Of The United Nations has a vast collection of seeds from thousand of plants that they are safe keeping in case we funk up the planet so bad that important food crop and other species start dying off, this collection also includes cannabis. This is also the primary seed stock for worldwide governmental research.

I wonder what they have in their freezers :D

-Kodiak-
 
Last edited:
B

BAMBI

Guest
hi all intresting post you guys know why a lot of older seed fale ? .

Its not the seed case but the seed embrio case.

What i have seen happen with old seed is this and im talking 10 and even over 20 year old seed you will see some (Germination rates lower) just open and start to show the tap root some infact will have the tap root showing its tail then you look 12 hours later the seed is closed.

what happens is the seed embrio case sticks to the seed and in short smuthers the seed embrio and it slowly dies.

In older seed the liqued between the seed embrio and seed embrio case drys up and that needs to be removed if you stand a chance on getting any to take.

Removeing or thinning the seed case helps but you need to remove the seed embrio case thats stuck to the seed embrio what i do is place them into germ in a new clean kitchen cloth called chucks wet place into tupawear and leve lid semi open.

I leve for a week normaly i open look each day and if i see a seed start to open or expose a little of the tap root i move it away from the rest so i know wich seed it is and then leve it till the next day now one of 2 things it will do it will grow a little more exposing more of a tap root wich then all i will do is place it in rw or clean soil and gently remove seed case off it and embrio case and place under fluro only feeding it water.

If it re closes then its take seed case off exposeing seed embrio and the seed embrio case stuck to it you need to work fast and gentle fast so the seed embrio dont start to dry and gentle so you dont damage it.

I remove the embrio case slowly useing a tooth pick only gently and as i remive it you will see tap root and that is wat you place into the rw or clean soil leveing the top part of the seed embrio above the medium only cover the tap root.

A lot of work yes but so far the oldest seed i have managed to save have been from the 70s i was gifted by a friend from hawiia.

Heres the thing if they dont germinate with in a week or just over what you will find isthe seed embrio in side the seed has one to mush its doe game over so i look daily as i start to see them open or open then close i know most are at that stage of no return you do it or they die not like you have any thing to loos right.

They will take longer to start but once they start to grow may also grow slower but clones or seeds made with these plants will have explosive growth.
Id have to agree with this hempy, I just tried to pop some 20 yr old seeds a month or so ago and all i got was a small sign of the tail wanting to emerge, yet they never did of course,

I seen color coated protected seeds inside a high times magizine the other day, weather this helps to protect the embreo or not,? it still needs to breathe a little through its seed shell caseing after all, so i dunno about that one.
 

L33t

Well-known member
Hi all

Great thread with lots of interesting & useful info here thanks everyone for contributing.

Hey hempy

Nice input mate , thanks for posting .

The thin membrane you refer to (that toughens/solidifies in old seed and doesnt allow the embryo to make it ) is the Endosperm .

Here is some info on Endosperm Weakening to regulate germination rates:

http://www.seedbiology.de/germination.asp


I ve read numerous times in articles on old/ancient seed germination that
Gibberellins (GA) promotes endosperm weakening thus increasing germination rates. Heres some info on usage:


Medieval Reefer over gardenscure site said:
''Have found some info from www.super-grow.biz/GA3FAQ.jsp#germination

-How Do I Use Gibberellic Acid (GA3) To Improve Seed Germination?

Gibberellic Acid will improve seed germination. The generally used method is to prepare a gibberellic acid (GA3) liquid solution and to soak the seeds in it for 24 hours; the GA3 concentration should be in the range of 100-250 PPM.

One manufacturer (1) of gibberellic acid products recommends first trying a concentration of 50 PPM.

One botanist used Gibberellic Acid when successfully germinating 2,000 year old seeds from an extinct plant (2).''
Anyone used GA on old cannabis seeds with success?
 
Last edited:

Kodiak

New member
Good link there L33t, thanks

Seaweed extract contains a lot of different plant hormones, including auxin (general growth), cytokinin (promotes cell division) and gibberellic acid (promoting growth and elongation of cells).

Algae have no roots and are merely anchored to the sea floor or free-floating so they produce massive amounts of plant hormones in order to gain size, especially since fish nibble on them all the time. These hormones carry over to the extract.

I used to spray the paper towels where I germinated the seeds with seaweed extract but later stopped as I read that it could interfere with the sex of the plant. Nowadays I know that sex is genetically determined, although there seems to be some room for discussion here too as the sex of a plant can probably be affected by heavy use of plant hormones, at least to the point of hermafroditisim.

According to wikipedia gibberellic acid should improve on germination rates:

"Gibberellic acid is sometimes used in laboratory and greenhouse settings to trigger germination in seeds that would otherwise remain dormant."

Next time I'm starting new plants I have to try spraying some old seeds with seaweed extract and see if it works.

Speaking of ancient seeds, here is an interesting article: http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/5312.html
 
Last edited:
B

barletta

Guest
I like to wet the papertowels that I use to germ in with a weak kelp/LK solution. I generally rinse the crap outta the papertowel first w/tap (I have good tap), squeeze it out, and wet it purrty good with the kelp spray. I have always done it that way, so I don't know if it helps or not. I also keep the seeds 85+ degF. It seems to me that if they don't pop in the first 2 days (48 hrs), they are not gonna. I am hard pressed to remember a seed that took longer that 2-3 days to pop (and lived). I'm going to try scratching/shaving any old beans I try to pop. Never did that, but have read about it...
 

Kodiak

New member
I agree, I germinate my seeds in the same way and if the they dont sprout by themselves in 3 days they probably won't.

I had some seeds that were pushing day four and they showed no sign of life, so I was going to throw them away, but thought I would give them one more shot and chipped the seed coat (and probably the endosperm too) once more. Some hours later they are sprouting and looking healthy, so all I'm saying is that this method might save a few seeds that would otherwise be discarded.

Always worth a shot :)

I give fresh seeds a 90% chance of success and old seeds maybe 50/50 or so.

Now that I think about it, I must have thrown away a handful of seeds that could have made it if I would have given them one last chance.
 

Kodiak

New member
Anybody have an idea why seeds from one strain can be really small and seeds from another strain can be very large?

I have seen seeds tiny as a pinhead and seeds almost as large as peas, what's the dynamics behind that?

Is it geographical or just a coincidence?

Cannabis is widespread across the world, all the way from southern tropical regions to arctic regions in the north. There must be some variation between how the seed works when comparing strains from say Africa and Russia, since the strains themselves show so much variation. Naturally there is variation across the strain too, so it might be individual.

I gather smaller seeds could be carried some distance by the wind, while larger and heavier seeds will ensure that the seed finds the ground.

Big seeds does not always mean big seedlings, although i figure that the energy stored in larger seeds will last the embryonic plant a bit longer than the energy stored in smaller seeds.

Any takes on this ?
 
Top