Diversity in small populations

R

Rhizome

Active member
Hello everyone,
I am a bit stuck with this issue of genetic population scale and diversity.
Always more, I am moving on the path of growing for diversity, which may sounds silly for some, but make somehow sense for me :)

I recently bought 1 pack of black widow and I am thinking how to enjoy this genetic, but at the same time trying to conserve and preserve some of the hard work that has been done until now. A F2 generation would be a reasonable decision ( open or selected pollination) keeping an open pool genetic of the WW.

But which diversity am I really preserving in 1 pack of seeds?
Let's add a parameter to this question: for some reason I have only 1 pack of seeds, no 2,3 no 100 seeds.1 pack.

How can I create diversity and preserve the genetic?

Migration could be a possibility, but if I have only 1 pack doesn't work.
I would exclude mutations.
I would like to avoid crossbreeding which is inbreeding.
I could outbreed crossing it with something else. This is actually the only possibility to create and preserve a genetic in small populations, isn't?

What's your thoughts about this topic?
Do you have any other suggestion?

Thanks
R
 
Rhizome said:
I would like to avoid crossbreeding which is inbreeding.
I could outbreed crossing it with something else. This is actually the only possibility to create and preserve a genetic in small populations, isn't?

What's your thoughts about this topic?
Do you have any other suggestion?
Click to expand...
It seems to me, that it depends what type of diversity tou experience in your single straw of seeds. If all seeds exhibit a similiar pehnotype then yes, you may have limited genes to work with. But, if you experience plants whose phenotypes are starkly diverse. Than you would appear to have a gentic lottery in your straw.

Even if most, or all of your plants express themselves similarly. Shantis genetics have not been bottlenecked like the majority of chemovars on the market, today.

Irregardless, you should have plenty of genetic material to work with. But, should you experience a diverse genotype. I would make sure to breed as manymkf these specimens as possible to preserve the genes andnselect from which one most closely represents your ideal genotype.

Edit: wouldn't cross breeding be crossing it with anothing strain. I. E outcrossing? I apologize for the question. I'm just trying to fully comprehend the thread.
 
Diesel840 said:
It seems to me, that it depends what type of diversity tou experience in your single straw of seeds. If all seeds exhibit a similiar pehnotype then yes, you may have limited genes to work with. But, if you experience plants whose phenotypes are starkly diverse. Than you would appear to have a gentic lottery in your straw.

Even if most, or all of your plants express themselves similarly. Shantis genetics have not been bottlenecked like the majority of chemovars on the market, today.

Irregardless, you should have plenty of genetic material to work with. But, should you experience a diverse genotype. I would make sure to breed as manymkf these specimens as possible to preserve the genes andnselect from which one most closely represents your ideal genotype.

Edit: wouldn't cross breeding be crossing it with anothing strain. I. E outcrossing? I apologize for the question. I'm just trying to fully comprehend the thread.
Click to expand...
Many thanks for the comment!
Yes I completely agree regarding Shanti's quality genetics ...

My apologies. I was cross thinking.
Back crossing.
 
Mr nice offers a unique(these days) number of seeds per pack for this very reason, selection.

Pick your battles..
Selection starts long before you've planted a seed, cultivar and setting are all important factors to take into consideration.. Assuming you have the space to accommodate a male tent and female tent to run both to completion then using more than one known female and/or male is a fine way to "open" things up, perhaps selecting individuals that offer distinctions from one another ie: short/tall etc/etc etc/etc.

Open pollination would imo be your best bet to promote diversity but increases the odds of finding undesirable/unknown traits, something not er! desirable in a small space.. Personally I'd select two desired females and one favored male and run the progeny ad nauseam.


Peace.
 
Last edited:
Ray said:
Mr nice offers a unique(these days) number of seeds per pack for this very reason, selection.

Pick your battles..
Selection starts long before you've planted a seed, cultivar and setting are all important factors to take into consideration.. Assuming you have the space to accommodate a male tent and female tent to run both to completion then using more than one known female and/or male is a fine way to "open" things up, perhaps selecting individuals that offer distinctions from one another ie: short/tall etc/etc etc/etc.

Open pollination would imo be your best bet to promote diversity but increases the odds of finding undesirable/unknown traits, something not er! desirable in a small space.. Personally I'd select two desired females and one favored male and run the progeny ad nauseam.


Peace.
Click to expand...
Many thanks.
I will note and follow what you suggested. Unfortunately I am not able to have two separated room...maybe adapting the vegetative room into male flowering. Maybe end male flowering windowsill? Maybe scheduling better my growery.

I could cheat with the BW. As I could easy buy a second pack and keep for the future in case I should add some more genetic. Migration somehow. I have actually planned not to seed all the seeds but 50% and keep the others as a sub-migration backup in case in few years playing around I end up with fitness or inbreeding issues.

Many thanks again for the comment
R
 
Rhizome said:
Hello everyone,
I am a bit stuck with this issue of genetic population scale and diversity.
Always more, I am moving on the path of growing for diversity, which may sounds silly for some, but make somehow sense for me :)

I recently bought 1 pack of black widow and I am thinking how to enjoy this genetic, but at the same time trying to conserve and preserve some of the hard work that has been done until now. A F2 generation would be a reasonable decision ( open or selected pollination) keeping an open pool genetic of the WW.

But which diversity am I really preserving in 1 pack of seeds?
Let's add a parameter to this question: for some reason I have only 1 pack of seeds, no 2,3 no 100 seeds.1 pack.

How can I create diversity and preserve the genetic?

Migration could be a possibility, but if I have only 1 pack doesn't work.
I would exclude mutations.
I would like to avoid crossbreeding which is inbreeding.
I could outbreed crossing it with something else. This is actually the only possibility to create and preserve a genetic in small populations, isn't?

What's your thoughts about this topic?
Do you have any other suggestion?

Thanks
R
Click to expand...
Hi 🤗.
My take on the matter is Don't stuck in names but in actual facts.
Make sure you know what the seeds you will use are. For example F1, ibl ,f2. Or what are they? what work exactly is put on them .
the black widow case I will say in not so stable is all over the place, this what I have seen in the forum I never grow it my self though to have a real experience.

So put all the 18seeds and open pollinate them for diversity
If you go to one to one then you start narrowing the selection and you start isolate characteristics.
If you put another strain on the mix goes more complicated and you can start decline from your initial line.



I hope this helps
 
"The road goes ever on and on..." - J.R.R.Tolkien

There is enough diversity worth preserving in one pack of seeds to last a lifetime. It's all in how you look at it and you won't know until you get there. Consider why you picked the strain in the first place.

"I recently bought 1 pack of black widow and I am thinking how to enjoy this genetic..."

The best way is to grow the Widow and smoke it without any preconceived notions. As you seem to imply, you have never grown this strain before so experience is needed. Maybe 2 packs, one to discover, the other to pinpoint and fine-tune what you have discovered. If you like it that is lol. As there are many good ideas posted above, my guess is that you will decide which ideas to use once you get on down the road a bit.
The Widow genetics, the males are all potential winners. They make for some excellent out-crossing. 18 seeds will give you 3-4 solid males. Paint brush in hand, a controlled pollination using the lower female branches will give you the best of both worlds; smokable up top (for evaluation), seeds on the bottom; preservation of diversity. Congrats, picking the Widow should provide you hella fun and some specimens worthy of a place in your collection.

pink widow2.jpg

mu
 
Heterogeneous Cannabis Breeding:
  • Definition: Heterogeneous breeding involves crossing plants with diverse genetic backgrounds. The resulting offspring can exhibit a wide range of phenotypic traits.
  • Variability: Heterogeneous cannabis populations tend to have more genetic variability, meaning that the offspring can vary significantly in terms of characteristics such as height, flowering time, cannabinoid content, and aroma.
  • Advantages: Heterogeneous breeding can be advantageous for creating diverse and adaptable cannabis strains. It allows for exploration of a broader genetic pool, potentially uncovering unique combinations of traits.
  • Challenges: The downside of heterogeneity is that it can be challenging to predict the traits of the offspring accurately. It may require more extensive testing and selection to identify and stabilize desirable traits.
Homogeneous Cannabis Breeding:
  • Definition: Homogeneous breeding involves crossing plants with similar or identical genetic backgrounds, aiming to create offspring that share specific traits.
  • Consistency: Homogeneous populations are more genetically uniform, leading to greater predictability in terms of the traits expressed by the offspring. This uniformity can be advantageous for maintaining specific characteristics in a strain.
  • Advantages: Homogeneous breeding is often used to stabilize and enhance desirable traits, ensuring consistency across generations. This is crucial for creating strains with uniform cannabinoid profiles, terpene profiles, or other specific attributes.
  • Challenges: The potential drawback is that limiting genetic diversity may also limit adaptability. If the chosen traits become less favorable in changing environments, the lack of genetic diversity may hinder the strain's ability to thrive.
 
musashi said:
"The road goes ever on and on..." - J.R.R.Tolkien

There is enough diversity worth preserving in one pack of seeds to last a lifetime. It's all in how you look at it and you won't know until you get there. Consider why you picked the strain in the first place.

"I recently bought 1 pack of black widow and I am thinking how to enjoy this genetic..."

The best way is to grow the Widow and smoke it without any preconceived notions. As you seem to imply, you have never grown this strain before so experience is needed. Maybe 2 packs, one to discover, the other to pinpoint and fine-tune what you have discovered. If you like it that is lol. As there are many good ideas posted above, my guess is that you will decide which ideas to use once you get on down the road a bit.
The Widow genetics, the males are all potential winners. They make for some excellent out-crossing. 18 seeds will give you 3-4 solid males. Paint brush in hand, a controlled pollination using the lower female branches will give you the best of both worlds; smokable up top (for evaluation), seeds on the bottom; preservation of diversity. Congrats, picking the Widow should provide you hella fun and some specimens worthy of a place in your collection.

View attachment 80991

mu
Click to expand...
Many thanks Musashi, and all!! Amazing comunity.
All the comments are invaluable and I will use them.
I am certainly sure that with Shanti's genetics anything that will pop out will end up fun.

Thanks again
 
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