critical mass - 3rd go - new moms - shallow water culture

cannatari said:
Hiya, Bubbla.

I've had some pretty killer results with the vortex but I haven't done a side-by-side or anything to isolate the results so I can conclude that it has any added benefits.

If it's true that water can be processed to break apart molecular clusters then it's no doubt going to have a big effect on transportation of nutrients and grow better plants.

Maybe I'll do a side-by-side in the future but like I said, all I set out to prove was that water could be aerated without bubbles. The vortex doesn't produce any bubbles so there must be a force not visible to the human eye at play (magic).

Peace.
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I didn't notice anything particualy different about using a vortex. Other than water seemed to have a sparkle.
Water doesn't need bubbles to become rich in dissolved oxygen, which is one of the single most important factors in hydroponics. Moving the water around the system is key.
The reason I asked about the air gap nice, is that you obviously dont want the air gap with roots hanging, or you end up with cord roots, which are a waste of space...
Your system is very neat mate, I like the look of it a lot.. May I ask how deep is the water in the tray? The tray where the roots are.. Mine's going to be around 3/4" deep I think...
Peace
BL
 
Billy Boy said:
I didn't notice anything particualy different about using a vortex. Other than water seemed to have a sparkle.
Water doesn't need bubbles to become rich in dissolved oxygen, which is one of the single most important factors in hydroponics. Moving the water around the system is key.
The reason I asked about the air gap nice, is that you obviously dont want the air gap with roots hanging, or you end up with cord roots, which are a waste of space...
Your system is very neat mate, I like the look of it a lot.. May I ask how deep is the water in the tray? The tray where the roots are.. Mine's going to be around 3/4" deep I think...
Peace
BL
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Hiya, Billy Boy.

Thanks for the nice compliment about my hydro. The upper tray stays about 4 inches deep at all times which is about 5 gallons. IME, that volume is relative to root capacity as the roots don't seem to want to exceed the water line. I had this in mind when I built it because I wanted to accurately benchmark it against a 5 gallon DWC so I had to be sure that the root capacity would be about the same.

Peace.
 
Nicessity said:
I appreciate the attention this thread is getting, btw! Thanks for all the likes, also, mates! Where are your suggestions for my grow, grønn??!!
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no suggestions so far mate you're doing beautifully on your own :)

Just questions lol

Really like what you've done with the new room. Those plants are loving it :D

Looks like you've got your ventilation covered. That 550cfm fan should be more than enough to cool your room - is it loud? What kind of air-inntake you got? and do you have the fan on a temperature controller?

Nicessity said:
I have them under a 600w ups with a 550cfm centrifugal fan sucking the air out into a filter.
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How have you connected the fan/cooltube/filter together?

I've never grown in a rdwc, but I would imagine it's main potential problems would be high res temps and root rot? like in dwc.
How do you prevent? or is the circulation so good that you don't get problems?
I'm curious - been thinking about a similar kind of project. Getting fed up with the manual labour aspect of coco. lol.

One suggestion I would make, and it's from experience made the hard way. Plan for any hydro system to fail and dump the res on your floor. So better to be safe than sorry - put down some pond liner if a leak could cause a problem. It's very cheap insurance.

Sorry for all the questions mate - just smoked some rather nice scissor hash. My mind is racing lol
 
grønn said:
no suggestions so far mate you're doing beautifully on your own :)

Just questions lol

Really like what you've done with the new room. Those plants are loving it :D

Looks like you've got your ventilation covered. That 550cfm fan should be more than enough to cool your room - is it loud? What kind of air-inntake you got? and do you have the fan on a temperature controller?


How have you connected the fan/cooltube/filter together?

I've never grown in a rdwc, but I would imagine it's main potential problems would be high res temps and root rot? like in dwc.
How do you prevent? or is the circulation so good that you don't get problems?
I'm curious - been thinking about a similar kind of project. Getting fed up with the manual labour aspect of coco. lol.

One suggestion I would make, and it's from experience made the hard way. Plan for any hydro system to fail and dump the res on your floor. So better to be safe than sorry - put down some pond liner if a leak could cause a problem. It's very cheap insurance.

Sorry for all the questions mate - just smoked some rather nice scissor hash. My mind is racing lol
Click to expand...

The fan is on the other side of the wall, so not much noise is there. Plus it came with a leather cover that quiets it down. I have it plugged directly into the outlet, so it's on all day and night. The cool tube is directly clamped to the ventilation which runs through the wall, and that is clamped to the fan on the other side of the wall, which sits vertically onto the filter, which sits comfortably on the ground.

I've never had root rot, but I've smelled it before in my 2nd grow. As long as you correct it quickly (when you can first smell it when wafting the lid). I have the 60 gallon tetra with the two pumps (on in top and one in bottom) so there is more than enough oxygen, along with the frequent circulation of the water. The drainage pipe is two times the size of the water pump's tubing, and the drainage pipe sticks up 4" from the bottom of the top container, which keeps the water level constant at 4", which also causes constant circulation of the water without clogging.

The tubing that runs from the water pump is long enough to reach out of the room and into the sink, so I utilize it to completely drain the large reservoir without ever splashing water or breaking my back! I haven't dropped a drop of water in that room with this new setup! I knew for a fact that when I designed this setup, I was NOT BREAKING MY BACK DUMPING WATER! haha.

Then to fill the reservoir back up, I simply put a separate pump into the sink and have a tube running back into the reservoir, directly from tap. There is always 5 gallons of residual water in the top reservoir, but so far, so good because the water gets circulated out eventually, anyway!

I actually wrote a whole ton more detailed answers but got logged out, so I wasn't going to take half an hour to type them back out haha. I'll just instant message later, haha!

-nice-
 
Sounds like you got your ventilation set up with the carbon filter being the last in the chain so to speak. It's less efficient on the fan and makes it work harder pushing rather than pulling, but the way you have it set-up with the fan connected straight to the carbon filter is a very good way to make sure that no smelly air escapes. As long as it keeps your temps steady it's all good.

Hear ya on the importance of low maintenance. Life is meant to be easy not hard :)

Just watch your water temps, don't overfeed and you'll be golden.
 
cannatari said:
I also got rid of the clay pebbles. Now I just set the rooted clones in the net cups and pack the edges with the little diced up rockwool so it can be thrown away all together and not have to go all the hassle of separating, washing and chasing those clay marbles around the house just to reuse a small amount of medium. I like the expanded clay as a medium but it's not needed in a small net cup. A $20 bag of the diced rockwool will do 10 gallons of container volume which means you're paying yourself about a nickel to process those clay pebbles for re-use.
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Hi Cannatari.

Could you expand a little on how you use rockwool instead of pebbles? Would like to do away with hydroton althogether. I hate this materials ability to escape, roll or float away and block stuff in hydro systems. Had a tiny pice of hydroton block a float switch and cause the pump to dump 90 gallons of water on the floor. That pond line was worth it's weight in gold that day :D but still not fun. So if i could get rid of the clay I would.

I was under the impression you would get problems from keeping rockwool wet all the time?

thanks for spreading the good knowledge :)
 
thanks for the input gronn. i haven't ever checked water temp, actually, haha. But the larger res is sitting on the cold floor, so the water should be 60-70 degrees f, all the time.

i'm actually in the process of building my final hydro setup, taking all I've learned and trying to put it into one simple system and stopping there. Hopefully, the new design could bring me upwards of 600g per grow, maybe more if I play my cards right.

i'll have pics of the new setup as soon as it is setup :) puns!
 
grønn said:
Hi Cannatari.

Could you expand a little on how you use rockwool instead of pebbles? Would like to do away with hydroton althogether. I hate this materials ability to escape, roll or float away and block stuff in hydro systems. Had a tiny pice of hydroton block a float switch and cause the pump to dump 90 gallons of water on the floor. That pond line was worth it's weight in gold that day :D but still not fun. So if i could get rid of the clay I would.

I was under the impression you would get problems from keeping rockwool wet all the time?

thanks for spreading the good knowledge :)
Click to expand...

Hiya, Nicessity.

True that over-watered rockwool is bad but in our particular situation there isn't enough of it to make that big of a difference once the plant's root mass is established in the tray. I've had it set up to where it stayed soggy and set up to where it stayed bone dry. Once the plant is established in the hydro it doesn't seem to make a difference.

Here's a pic of what I did to get rid of the hydroton:

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I haven't tried it yet but I'm sure you could root a cutting right in the net-cup which could be kinda tight.;)

Peace.
 

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cool, this is gonna save me some headaches I'm sure.

Do you have the bottom of the netpot submerged in your system?
 
The bottom of the cup is touching the water. You can see an example of it in the pic of my hydro on the previous page.

Peace.
 
Nicessity said:
thanks for the input gronn. i haven't ever checked water temp, actually, haha. But the larger res is sitting on the cold floor, so the water should be 60-70 degrees f, all the time.

i'm actually in the process of building my final hydro setup, taking all I've learned and trying to put it into one simple system and stopping there. Hopefully, the new design could bring me upwards of 600g per grow, maybe more if I play my cards right.

i'll have pics of the new setup as soon as it is setup :) puns!
Click to expand...

Cool man. Looks like you're on your way to a bumper crop - I'm pretty sure you'll get your 600 once you fill your space. Critical mass sure can pack on the weight.

Take some pictures while you're building your new system if you get a chance. Always good to see the build process if possible.

I'm planning a flooded tube system, and this'll be a good chance for me to learn some stuff abouth shallow water culture. Gonna be fun :D

Thanks for the good info Cannatari!
 
grønn said:
Hi Cannatari.

Could you expand a little on how you use rockwool instead of pebbles? Would like to do away with hydroton althogether. I hate this materials ability to escape, roll or float away and block stuff in hydro systems. Had a tiny pice of hydroton block a float switch and cause the pump to dump 90 gallons of water on the floor. That pond line was worth it's weight in gold that day :D but still not fun. So if i could get rid of the clay I would.

I was under the impression you would get problems from keeping rockwool wet all the time?

thanks for spreading the good knowledge :)
Click to expand...

Hi Gronn, hope you don't mind me jumping in ... I've used RW exclusively for years. Tried hydroton and started in dirt ... found RW to be vastly better than both in virtually all respects. My 2 cents, can't prove it, but almost all the negative comments I've heard about RW come from people who don't use RW, it's simply 'what they've heard'.

I do understand how some would think a seedling or clone might be overwatered, the usual comment, but I haven't found it to be true and it's a controllable factor anyway.

I use the starter cubes for cuts and seedlingss, and I fill hydo pots with the little 1" cubes for the rest of the grow. Clean, wicks and retains water far better than clay pebbles, great results. I let it dry before tossing out after the grow and the 'refuse' from a large grow ends of weighing so little that it's very easy and convenient to dispose.

The only real drawback I see is some cost to it and it's not generally reusable.

cheers,
rabbit
 
Update: 2 weeks after flipping lights, first buds forming! loving the new setup, and so are the plants!

Top shot, sorry I didn't get all of the plants in the shot
Slide11.jpg



Side shot of one of the front plants
Slide21.jpg




cheers, mates!

-nice-
 
I feel like I'm looking into my own garden when I see tight internodal spacing like this:

Slide21.jpg


That's the effect of water culture, IMO. My guess is that when you're moving the nutrient solution at hundreds of gallons per hour past the root zone it maximizes the number of opportunities that each molecule has for absorption and the plant compensates by producing more storage locations.

So far you're looking like you're on your way to a killer run. Keep it up!

Peace.
 
cannatari said:
I feel like I'm looking into my own garden when I see tight internodal spacing like this:

Slide21.jpg


That's the effect of water culture, IMO. My guess is that when you're moving the nutrient solution at hundreds of gallons per hour past the root zone it maximizes the number of opportunities that each molecule has for absorption and the plant compensates by producing more storage locations.

So far you're looking like you're on your way to a killer run. Keep it up!

Peace.
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I'm glad you like the pic, cannatari!

And I agree with your theory of increased surface area, as opposed to something like a soil grow.

-----------

Plant looks nice Fire! I just cannot understand the basics of soil-growing, so I just stick to hydroponics haha. I do, however, have my mother plants in 1 gallon soil containers with foxfarm ocean forest! :) THey are healthy, still lol.


Here you go, Fire,

I change the nutrients from the bottom reservoir every Monday, which is today, which means I will be doing that in a bit, haha.

I just pull the tube out of the top tray and put it in the sink, run the pump until it's pumped all it can. Then, I put another water pump in my sink, and pump fresh tap water directly from my sink, back into the large reservoir. I don't dechlorinate or treat my tap water. I just fill with 17 gallons of fresh tap water. THen I mix in 40 tsp of GH FloraNova Bloom, like it says on the bottle. I mix 40 tsp because there is still the 5 gallons residual in the top tray that I don't actually pump out.

Also, what I've done this past week since changing to the bloom nutrients, I add 2 tsp of the FloraNova Grow every 2 days to keep the leaves from yellowing so fast and to avoid deficiencies while changing to flower. It doesn't say to do this on the bottle, but it looks like I'm doing a good job. Then I pH adjust the bottom reservoir, usually 4 mL of GH pH down does the trick. This nutrient stays balanced the whole week, and is so simple to adjust.

So, like I said... I change nutrients 1 time/week... been adding approximately 2 tsp/gallon of FloraNova... been adding 2 tsp of FloraNova Grow every 2 days to aid in the change to flower and to avoid leaf yellowing during the first 2 weeks of flowering... i add plain tap water to the reservoir (don't have an RO setup and can't afford 20 gallons of distilled water every week haha)...

Plants are the healthiest I've ever seen, and root masses are healthy, as well!


cheers!

-nice-
 
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Very good write up, I enjoy the detail, this type of reference material is invaluable for those who are looking to duplicate your success. I look forward to your continued reports, I really like where this is going.:D
 
FireBrand said:
Very good write up, I enjoy the detail, this type of reference material is invaluable for those who are looking to duplicate your success. I look forward to your continued reports, I really like where this is going.:D
Click to expand...

thank you, mate! i just know it would have been much easier for me to begin growing if I could find detailed, easy to follow, illustrated grow logs so I try to facilitate others the way I would have appreciated.

however, I have had many chats with experienced growers, like Dawn, Gronn, and Jondo, in which I picked their brains and filled mine! haha


Here's a picture of how I drain my reservoir, I pull out the tube that is running from the bottom to the top and simply move it to the sink!





thanks for all the attention on this grow, mates!

-nice-
 
grønn said:
Cool man. Looks like you're on your way to a bumper crop - I'm pretty sure you'll get your 600 once you fill your space. Critical mass sure can pack on the weight.

Take some pictures while you're building your new system if you get a chance. Always good to see the build process if possible.

I'm planning a flooded tube system, and this'll be a good chance for me to learn some stuff abouth shallow water culture. Gonna be fun :D

Thanks for the good info Cannatari!
Click to expand...

Here are some pictures of me building the new system.. I can't wait to install it when these plants are finished! This will be my final upgrade.


Design layout to scale



Here's all the pieces cut to scale based on my design with slight modifications; just laying out to check measurements are correct.. BTW, for 3" netcups, you need to cut a 2-3/4" hole, and don't worry, the hole won't be too big, it shall be perfect!



Painted the tubes with black plastic paint



Here is the system all together. All that is needed now is a support system and reservoir. I plan on a 30 gallon reservoir which will under the drain spout in the corner of the room. The water pump will run to both tubes at the distal ends to circulate the nutrients. The pipe is 4" and the drainage system pipes are 1-1/2". Very proud of this setup. I was going to do 20 plants, but 10 plants will allow more spacing for less problems. Hope this helps everyone.
 
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