Bud of the moment

Mandarin Cookies NZ Forum Cut - one of my flagship chemovars.

"A chemovar is a chemically distinct entity in a plant or microorganism, with differences in the composition of the secondary metabolites." What are some of the differences in the composition of your secondary metabolites that make your Type(?) chemovar one of your flagship chemovars?

"The terms chemotype and chemovar were originally introduced to the ICNB in a proposed revision to one of the nomenclatural rules dealing with infrasubspecific taxonomic subdivisions at the 1962 meeting of the International Microbiological Congress in Montreal. The proposed change argued that nomenclatural regulation of these ranks, such as serotype and morphotype, is necessary to avoid confusion. In proposed recommendation 8a(7), it was asked that "authorization be given for the use of the terms chemovar and chemotype," defining the terms as being "used to designate an infrasubspecific subdivision to include infrasubspecific forms or strains characterized by the production of some chemical not normally produced by the type strain of the species." The change to the Code was approved in August 1962 by the Judicial Commission of the International Committee of Bacteriological Nomenclature at the VIII International Microbiological Congress in Montreal." Chemotype/Chemovar

I guess I am asking in simple street terms exactly what chemical(s) does your Mandarin Cookies NZ Forum Cut contain that other strains of Mandarin Cookies NZ Forum Cut do not have? Which lab did the testing? Moderncanna?

Longball
 
Beautiful looking plants Legacy.

I have to admit I was a bit confused when the words chemovar and chemotype arrived on the scene.
I supposed atthe time some have access to lab reports.
It would be interesting to read one of these reports if anybody has one.
Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia that might also be helpful.

"A good example of a plant with many polymorphic chemotypes is Thymus vulgaris. While largely indistinguishable in appearance, specimens of T. vulgaris may be assigned to one of seven different chemotypes, depending on whether the dominant component of the essential oil is thymol, carvacrol, linalool, geraniol, sabinene hydrate (thuyanol), α-terpineol, or eucalyptol. Such chemotypes may be indicated as Thymus vulgaris ct. thymol (red thyme), or Thymus vulgaris ct. geraniol (sweet thyme), etc. Such an indication has no taxonomic standing."

For interests sake do you have lab analysis results for the terpenes you can share @legacy.cannabis.nz?
 
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Uncle Jack - your quote is in the link I provided. :)The words chemovar and chemotype have been around for decades but only started 'trending' in the last couple years. The only way to tell you have a chemovar is to have a sample tested at a lab. I have never seen a lab report or even heard it mentioned. To be a chemovar the plant needs to produce at least one specific chemical that no other plant of that strain produces. I have never heard a chemovar holder ever mention their special chemical. Nothing personal, legacy.canabis.nz, next person who used chemovar was getting this question and you are the lucky winner! lol

I suspect some people get a rare phenotype and call it a chemovar. Without getting too scientific it is really quite simple. If you don't have a lab report then you don't have a chemovar. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule. You may be able to see the otherwise invisible chemical with these:

main-qimg-0d72a7a361a3a9943b69a29c9c4ca561-pjlq.jpg


Longball
 
Longball,
This right here is why I love this forum - you cant just have or find such discussions on social media, like we do in here, so thank you for your questions, and sharing of your own understanding and knowledge.

This is a topic or question no one has asked me before, but I can answer in a few ways.

What in my mind makes Mandarin Cookies NZ Forum Cut a "chemovar"?

Admittedly - I adopted the term from my time amongst the legal industry here in NZ and the tendancy of some large capital raising companies using that term simply to describe selected "good" phenotypes or "clone-only" varieties of seedlines they are trying to commercialise.
Adopting the term myself fitted in to the language already being thrown round the legal medical microcosm of NZ.

That being said, and with now digesting what Longball has to point out about defining what a chemovar is, unbeknownst to me , I have tagged a worthy culprit.

Mandarin Cookies was originally bred by Ethos, and this particular line is long discontinued. 6 years ago I hunted a pack and found the said NZ cut. It was mothered, cloned and sent to many growers around New Zealand, legal and home growers, and provided most of them with their best grows to date. When the legal industry arrived, this cut sat at the top for license holders to get their hands on. New Zealands first ever legal export of dried cannabis flower was this very cut by Trichome Medical.

Over the years Mandarin Cookies NZ cut has been vastly grown and lab tested coming in consistently above 25% and upto 32% THC. Colin from Ethos vouched that none of his cuts of this line tested this high.
So this is her biggest attribute.

Following that, she fades to an incredible black every time, giving some attractibve bag appeal to the end product.
Her flavours are profoundly as she is named - citrus mandarins and cookie dough.

In breeding projects, her traits are super dominant - most progeny inheriting her structure, cookie dough terpenes and potency

In terms of lab tests for distinguishing chemical differences:
New Zealand being so fresh on the scene, is not there yet. We are a proud stubborn country who will not accept research from other countries on this cannabis forefront. So this being said, there is actually zero data for labs to work with to be able to even correlate any data, the framework for this, around cannabis growth data needs established, and the country needs a set of standards to begin collecting data for. Then a database to tie that all together.

I have been pushing for such a model and groundwork for the last 5 years, and actually got quite far in establishing the model, framework, data and data collection, and the resources needed to do so.
I still have a working relationship with AbacusBio (the biggest horticultural data analysists in the southern hemisphere) and it is with their consulting, and technology, that we have begun piecing together this project.

It is truly a costly labour of love. Longterm it could earn me some money, but more likely will cost me more than I ever earn... particularly in all the various different costly lab tests needed, let alone the cost of creating a database and functioning system to host and then layout such a galaxy.

I come and go from injecting money and data into this project... excited with where this could go, down many many roads, genomics etc. But from the advice of a very wise industry leader within this forum.. such an ambitious and niche project and line of work is something that might take more than my life time to truly achieve and the level I dream of.

Mandarin Cookies NZ cut amongst not many other of my "clone only" cuts got thee furtherest into this project and data collection, and was the cut we developed the whole framework around
 
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Hi @legacy.cannabis.nz! :)

Thank you for taking the time to respond with such a well thought out and informative answer. I'll bet that you have some real interesting stories you could tell.

"In breeding projects, her traits are super dominant - most progeny inheriting her structure, cookie dough terpenes and potency" - I think we are onto something here as this meets the exact definition of 'cultivar'.
"A cultivar is a kind of cultivated plant that people have selected for desired traits and which retains those traits when propagated." I think you may have a cultivar, what do you think?

I am not trying to take away from your plant. It looks awesome and you clearly know how to grow good pot. As a betting man, I'd bet it's every bit as good as you say it is. In fact, you can send me as much as you can spare and I'd really appreciate it. You can bet on that!

Was just trying to learn why this plant was a flagship chemovar. After reading some more about chemovars I noticed there was not a clear singular definition. Academians, scientists, politcians all had different things to say. Most likely none had smoked pot and answer seemed to be based on the amount of grant/research money they could get for their state. Exact chemovars should be known so that the medical patient can get the exact same type dosage and product each time. The patient is owed at least that.

In summary, I learned that all I need to know is how to recognize good pot and how to grow it. Saying big words to my plants never seemed to help them grow. It does seem they like swear words!

Oh, before I forget....
Longterm it could earn me some money,

It's actually, Longball ;)

just a plain ol' growing marijuana bud. Nothing special or unique :(

POMB P1100593.JPG
 
The old Mandarin Cookies looks mean enough to be called a chemovar to me.
It is certainly unique.
Great job helping to keep this chemovar going. :)
Sounds like some top notch work coming out of Aotearoa.
If we can all agree that the chemovar is the terpene profile, or the dominant terpene then that might be a start as far as understanding each other.
Some of that work can be done with our noses, no need for a gas chromotograph. lol

Words can have multiple meanings as long as we have a consensus it can mean whatever we like..

All the best
 
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It has already been decided that chemovars are divided into 5 types. Looking mean has nothing to do with it. I was curious which Type Mandarin Cookies is. Before a strain is classified as a Type it is tested for it's top 2 cannabinoids and it top 2-4 terpenoids. Cannabinoid assays were run on an Agilent Technologies 1260 UPLC system (Santa Clara, CA) equipped with a G4212A DAD, G1316C temperature-controlled column compartment, G4226A autosampler, and G4204A quaternary pump. Cannabinoids were separated on a Poroshell 120 EC-C18 column with a Poroshell 120 EC-C18 guard column. The UPLC runs OpenLab CDS ChemStation Rev C. 01.06 (61) software (Agilent Technologies). Terpenoid analyses were carried out on an Agilent 7890B GC/7697A Headspace/5977A mass spectrophotometer with a DB-624UI and Agilent 5181–8818 split/splitless liner. Injector port temperature was 250°C with a transfer line, valve oven, and needle temperature of 180°C. Carrier gas was helium at a flow of 33.0 cm/sec. The mass spectrometer detector was set to scan with a range from 50 to 300 m/z. The instrument was controlled by Agilent MassHunter Quantitative Analysis (Vers. B.08.00 Build 8.0.593.0). Certified reference standards were from Restek (Bellefonte, PA) with MassHunter library confirmation.

After these test are run it can be determined what type chemovar it is. Type I, Type II, Type III, Type IV, Type V. Those are your choices. I was wondering what his was. If you know you have a chemovar then you know what type you have. It will be in your lab results. If you say you have a chemovar but forget to tell me what Type it is then it is within my rights to ask. This will give me a better understanding of if it's medical pot, recreational pot, etc. Knowing the Chemovar Type will help me make a better choice in my selection of medicine. I don't believe that you can tell a plants top 2 cannabinoids with your nose alone. Terpenes, maybe.

Cannabis Chemovar Nomenclature Misrepresents Chemical and Genetic Diversity
 
Thank you both Longball and Uncle Jack.

It is fair to say I was loosely throwing around the term chemovar. I had no idea that the definitions are a tad debated or hazey especially when it comes to cannabis nomenclature.

Longball you are mentioning alot about what "Type" it is. My simplemans understanding is you are asking what is the "chemotype" here, less so than chemovar. I can track down some of my tests, but to answer right now - mando cookies is a Type 1 Chemotype.
In my mind (and as referenced also by Uncle Jack) chemovars as a description incorporated more than just cannabinoid composition, and carried over to a more complete round up of the plants composition including unique terpene sets, and growth structure. Basically a unicorn standout plant (clone only) from the rest, in many areas.

I was trying to build upon these principles by backing a plant such as Mandarin Cookies portfolio by collecting solid data sets for every grow, recording not just cannabinoids and terpenes, but growth data of tidy data sets, not scattered random data, but having that ability to see growth reports from various different mediums, lighting, and nutrients. So if one was to look up that strain, they could quite accurately be shown how she is likely to perform in a facility or growhouse - this was via continual feeding of live data on grows.
I guess I had my own take on what a chemovar is to me, and whether that is the correct terminology is uncertain. I loosely threw the term around with these own descriptions in mind.

I would happily stick with the less debated term "cultivar".. it really doesnt matter to me, but it has been a delight to look into this deeper.

Longball:
To answer why i called it ny "flagship" cultivar. This strain has so much beautiful potential in her clone form, when medical became legal in New Zealand, I represented myself as an entity from the respected black market with a variety I carried into the industry that had/has a tonne of hype around it. It was my literal flagship, foot in the door transition to the legal world.
You mention that "Exact chemovars should be known so that the medical patient can get the exact same type dosage and product each time. The patient is owed at least that" - I 100% agree to this statement. Mandarin Cookies was what I whole heartedly believed to be a commercially viable, much loved strain by consumers, and for clueless white collar green rush business owners it was a foot straight in the door saving them potential years of pheno hunting.

"Clone-only"/chemovar was the simplest solution to getting that desired consistency through-out your grows. Mandarin Cookies was easy for any grower to achieve super desirable abd consistent results.
 
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Damn, so much I don't know.
It's awesome.
Cultivar is certainly sounding safer for grail hunters or keepers of the grail.
Might have to leave chemovar to the top brass.

I feel the same 😆.
To clarify my position - I may have been lucky enough to work legally, but never have I dabbled in to any form of academic education, study, or anything of the likes. Me + Exams just dont mix.
So I come from a very" self taught background. The type where I made all mistakes first, and slowly how to fix them lol
Simply, I am fascinated with growing cannabis, I have a drive to learn all I can about it.
I know alot, but I really dont know it all. Every day is learning.

Back to photos 🙂
IMG_20240822_130922_941.jpg
This is a new clone I have found we call Parallel Peaches.
Seed line gifted by Tony Greenhand and is a cross of genetics I have never heard of lol:
Chardonnay x Llama sanglug

😆😆 Ive heard many strain names, but never those two.

Shes not commercially viable, but the smells of this strain sit at the very top of what I have ever found. She smells better and peachier than real peaches, incredible.
Grown in organic living soil
 
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Hi @legacy.cannabis.nz! :)

Great answer and very cool project. Type of thing I'd like to be part of.

. My simplemans understanding is you are asking what is the "chemotype" here, less so than chemovar. I can track down some of my tests, but to answer right now - mando cookies is a Type 1 Chemotype.

Actually I was asking about chemovar. Chemotype Type I only tells me that the most dominant cannabinoid is THC. Which tells me...nothing. I'm sure that you are familiar with the clinical studies where participants were given 100% THC and not a single person enjoyed it. A friend recently purchased some 40% THC and was not impressed with it. Sometimes 15% THC weed kicks your ass.

When pot is tested for at least 2 cannabinoids and 2-4 terpenoids, it is now classified as a chemovar. This makes it so much easier to determine the effect it will have on you. I have a medical license due to chronic pain. Even my Dr. said he thought my pain should be a 14 on a scale of 1-10. I need to make good choices in my selection of medicine. Knowing the Chemotype does not help very much . Knowing the Chemovar composition helps me make a better choice. Let me give you an example: You are in pain and having trouble sleeping and in the dispensary you see two jars of medicine. One jar is labeled:

Mandarin Cookies NZ Forum Cut, Chemotype Type 1, 35% THC

the other jar:

Mother Fugly, Chemovar Type II: 9% CBD, 10% THC, myrcene and linalool dominant”

We see THC and CBD is almost 1:1, that's on the medical side. Myrcene is known for its relaxing, sedating effects. Therefore, a cannabis strain containing high levels of Myrcene has the potential to support a patient with falling asleep. Alongside the reduction of pain, stress and anxiety. Linalool is known for its good effects on anxiety, chronic pain, and sleep disorders. So for someone with pain and sleep problems knowing the Chemovar helps the patient make a better medical decision for their medical needs.

So when you mentioned you had a Chemovar, I was curious as to what the main cannabinoids and terpenoids tested out as. If it was good for chronic pain maybe I'd try to grow some. For the medical patients it is important that the regulating agencies get together on an exacting standard of Chemovars so the patient gets the exact same medicine in any dispensary he goes to in the world. Right now everyone is too focused on the Chemotype Type I - THC, to be of much benefit on the medical side of things. As I learned many years ago - "Don't fall for the hype" - and the hype right now is THC percentage. I do learn things everyday and it seems the more I learn the less I know! Maybe quitting High School wasn't the great idea I thought it was at the time. Of course, they didn't call it 'High' School for nothing. And I still went everyday! 🤡

Wishing you well on your project!

Longball
 
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