Are SSH, Jack Herer and Diesel the same thing?

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british_hempire

Guest
CBF, who lives in wetern Colorado where the dog bud that chemdawg descends from wrote this at icmag in 2007, give you an idea of why it's so hard to find info, in 1996 the feds busted the area badly which was only a few years after chemdog (the guy) bought the dog buds in which he found the seeds he grew the chemdawg from so that kind of indicates that either the original growers and cuts are gone or are now very underground. Perhpas with the med status in Colorado they might resurface, but to me, it sounds like they were outlaw types so I doubt they have anything to do with the med scene. If they were bikers, they probably moved somewhere else when the feds turned up.

chemdawg is/was a rename of the original bud the chem seed came from. also if im followin right, it also came from locals here in my area. have heard it called colorado dog, but dont know if thats accurate.

Pbud (another local line) has said it was bud from some bikers outta crested butte. ive smoked Pbud (Paonia Purple Paralyzer) have never heard of CO Dog or chemdawg local. ive asked quite a few of the old local growers around here (used to be a hotspot around here for outdoor growin) about Pbud or chem seed, and noone has any, or heard of CO Dog or Chem.

lots of the local growers are growin a line called redlands here. sorry line imo. good ole days are a memory around here. Feds had a big wing ding around here 12 or so years ago, and many a grower lost there land and homes. and i believe that was the demise of the Pbud. i was suprised to hear chemdawg actually had seed of the Pbud, as the story here is the grower of the Pbud, either was busted, or skinned out when it went bad here. and he was very protective of his line.

so chemdawg, if the story is accurate, originates from a seedline here on the western slope of colorado.

CBF
The guy in Virginia who was the source of the Massachussets Super Skunk that went into making the diesels was sent down for a long prson stretch, the MSS was originally called Virgina Skunk and got the MSS name after it travelled to Massachussets (where Chemdog (the guy) hails from. I just mention this as a further example of how hard it can be to trace lineages as many people from back then either left the scene or got busted and sent down.

This is what JJ-NYC had to say about Diesel, you can take his word on this as fact:

Let me give everyone a history lession about the Diesel. The Chem Dawg
was a unknown indica strain(Kush,HP,or NL?) old school, from
Colorodo. (Does anyone know what strain or its orgin?)This is the
orginal NYC DIESEL. Two friends met on Dead tour. A pound of Chem
was mailed to Mass. around 93-94.Seeds were found and started.My
friend met Mass.G. at Phish tour 93-94.Clones of the Chem Dawg and
Super Skunk made their way to NYC. With no male,The Weasel crossed a
Sensi NL male with the Super Skunk. Took a male and crossed it with
the Chem Dawg creating the Underdawg Diesel or (Diesel no.1,Headband
Diesel,or Daywrecker Diesel).Another strain in his room the DNL
(NL/Shiva(RFK)/Hawiian cross) self seeded the Under Dawg a seed was
grown and The Sour Diesel was created, no planned breeding, it just
happened. This is the Diesel gospel. Everything else is BS including
soma (who the fuck is soma?) I challenge anyone who questions this
fact, for I have been involved with the Diesel since it came to NYC.
 

kylebroflovski

New member
GUANOIZDASHIZNIT-"If ssh jh and diesel are the same strain then its a perfect example of epigenetics."

If a strain is epigenetically altered would you still be able to "fingerprint" it? If you could still get a stable ID marker then this could help prove the epigenetic theory. It is still a theory isn't it?

Awesome Shit Guano!,

KB 8)_~
 

kylebroflovski

New member
Most of these guys "came forward" in 2007. After Diesel and Chemdawg ond Og were popular. Isn't it a possibility that these guys were part of the "elite" cut hype on the internet at that time?

I hope you don't see these ICMag posts as a definitive answer to the lineage, because I have seen MANY "breeders" take credit for something that was not their work. I'm sure you have too BH.

Aloha,

KB 8)_~
 
B

british_hempire

Guest
I always try to cross reference info, it's not always possible of course.

One part of the story that is verifiable is the part about the Colorado Dog Bud that Chemdawg came from, there was very definitely a Dog Bud as several Colorado growers who don't even know wonkanobe and pbud have written about it, I know some guys in Colorado and have discussed it with them, it's either gone or very tightly held. There are some things being passed off as Dog Bud there now, one of the cuts that was being passed round as a supposed Dog Bud turned out to be the Abusive OG Kush.

You're sure I have taken credit for things i didn't do, I'm sure i haven't, we'll agree to differ if that's okay, arguing gets us nowhere.
 

biteme

New member
one of the real problems you will run into in any attempt to find the origons of hybrids such as chemdog is that only 25 years ago or so, it was not uncommon to find killer homegrown that had no name! some little garden variety breeder up in the mountains crossing bagseed is all.

attaching a handle or name on a particular strain became necessary only as the commercial seed industry came into play. peace-biteme
 
Most of the best weed I have puffed had no name. Good weed finds it's own name (rarely one with commercial potential) only posers and seedhawkers name their weed.
 
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kylebroflovski

New member
I agree completely biteme.Names used to help you determine where something came from though. Almost like a pedigree for an animal, if one was knowledgeable a simple name could tell them MANY things including how to possibly grow it.

Once people saw what Nevil was doing in ADam in the mid 80's the world of Cannabis went into turbo mode. People had $ in their eyes, but mostly crap in their sacks. So they started calling their crappy commercial grade bud Haze to sell more. That was also when everything good I smoked was called a Haze. (Most of it was Nevil's back then though :)) Come to think of it EVERYTHING was Haze for quite a few years. Something tells me this is starting to happen again. I guess that's not so bad, it reminds me of my youth. :)

Hey BH I'm not accusing you of anything man. I don't agree with everything you post (mostly in regards to lineages, IMO there are just TOO many stories out there) but I definitely think you have been a positive addition to this site so far. I hope it continues. :)

Namaste,

KB 8)_~
 

coxnox

New member
I'm afraid I don't. They did a huge grow of thousands of NL5 x Haze and Neville picked a female which became the mother of SSH, Shanti picked a different female and that became the mother of Mango Haze. The A5 and C5 cuts come from that grow and A5 is a mango smelling/tasting plant, I expect it is similar to Shanti's selection that went into Mango Haze.
is this exact ?

P.S. The only thing that annoys me aabout Nev's posts is that I am starting to sound like an ass-kisser when I reply to them. I promise you I'm no ass-kisser, I like to tell it as I see it straight, just what is happening is Nev keeps talking absolute sense that I can't help but completely agree with. I'm not afraid to disagree with Nev but he just doesn't give me any opportunity! lol

Keep it up Nev, We're all lapping it up!
jesse get out of that body... :D
 
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socioecologist

New member
Kick the Thread Tires a Bit

Maple Leaf Indica kicks out a pheno about 1 in every 10 or 15 plants that has the leaf shape and plant habit of skunk#1 dead on but nothing else comparable.. heavy afghani high, astringent paint smell that is almost too much until well cured and much more open bud structure than skunk #1.
This is a great description of the Chem #4 plant, and a characteristic of many subsequent crossings of the Chem family (Sour D, OG Kush (insert variety of the month)).

Sure makes you wonder. I have a Chem4 in flower right now. Let me overnight some flowers to land of dingos when it's finished.
 
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british_hempire

Guest
I found Chem 4 to have an astringent smell/taste like solvents mixed with lemons and piss, didn't care for the taste but it was very potent.
 

socioecologist

New member
That was my sensory experience with Chem #4 as well. It's not one of my favorites, but it was the favorite of everyone else who tried it (grown outdoors @ 45N). The flavor intensity (before and during smoking) and potency are it's strengths from a smoking perspective. It's vigor, yield, open structure, and good adaptability to outdoor growing (attached: she is the plant in the very back @ Sept. 18th) are positives (in my view) from the cultivator's perspective. The quote from ortega_seeker about "astringent paint" really resonated with me re: the Chem family--just haven't smelled anything near it's intensity (though it turns into an undertone in a lot of "Kushes" floating around).
 

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bigherb

Guest
is this exact ?



jesse get out of that body... :D
I doubt it ,Only nevil n shanti can confirm

But

The A5 C5 n all of the oldschool haze clone only's were from 86/87 if i recall .The SSH N MH were selected much later from seed.It doesnt seem possible or make sense,The parents were from hybrids of the clone only OSH's

another way to look at it is shanti and Nevil did selection with SSH / MH .The OSH clones were selected soley by Nevil i believe.

Soo the lineage (C5) is the same from Nevil's first selection but the mothers were grown out from seed for the MH SSH

Remember A5 was never sold nor were any hazeA hybrids .Soo how they grow them out in those later years ?


1luvbigherb
 

socioecologist

New member
Puzzled

Neville said something a few pages back that puzzles me in a good way.

The JH came out of a batch that made before ending up in jail. My ex manager grew this batch out when I was in jail or shortly after I got out (so he told me). It was a stand out indica type reminisent of the NL5. It was quick too, 8 weeks. Most of the siblings were stretchy sativa types. I tested the same batch again, but didn't find another one. If you do the numbers with something with even 25% NL5, you will find types that lean to the NL5. This was one. They pop up in the NH too, but until now they haven't been the best ones.
N.
I'm curious what "until now they haven't been the best ones" is referring to...? Been thinking about it all day--had a couple bags from the vape and thought a bit more. I'm going conspiracy theory: is it a reference to the male NH sought/held for the grail project?

attached: NL leaning NH female @ 8 weeks. One of the seven NH males I got from a pack looks just like her in (diminutive) structure.
 

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british_hempire

Guest
I doubt it ,Only nevil n shanti can confirm

But

The A5 C5 n all of the oldschool haze clone only's were from 86/87 if i recall .The SSH N MH were selected much later from seed.It doesnt seem possible or make sense,The parents were from hybrids of the clone only OSH's

another way to look at it is shanti and Nevil did selection with SSH / MH .The OSH clones were selected soley by Nevil i believe.

Soo the lineage (C5) is the same from Nevil's first selection but the mothers were grown out from seed for the MH SSH

Remember A5 was never sold nor were any hazeA hybrids .Soo how they grow them out in those later years ?


1luvbigherb
Nope, the A5 and C5 are from later than 86/87, I'm pretty sure they come from a large selection of NL5 x Haze Nev did in 1989. A5 is NL5 x Haze A, C5 is NL5 x Haze C, there were others too, C1, C2 etc. How is it a stretch that Nev kept the best cuttings from that large selection and used them to make SSH a few years later? He handed out the best cuts from that selection which is how the A5, C5, HPHaze and others are still around in Holland today.

Or maybe Nevil and/or Shanti grew out more NL5 x Haze C beans to select the SSH and Mango parents from?

Nev will have to clarify this.
 
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bigherb

Guest
Nope, the A5 and C5 are from later than 86/87, I'm pretty sure they come from a large selection of NL5 x Haze Nev did in 1989. A5 is NL5 x Haze A, C5 is NL5 x Haze C, there were others too, C1, C2 etc. How is it a stretch that Nev kept the best cuttings from that large selection and used them to make SSH a few years later? He handed out the best cuts from that selection which is how the A5, C5, HPHaze and others are still around in Holland today.

Or maybe Nevil and/or Shanti grew out more NL5 x Haze C beans to select the SSH and Mango parents from?

Nev will have to clarify this.
Only SB n Nev can confirm this


Shanti has told me those cuts have nothing to do with the current mns strains ,futhermore as i understand the MH n SSH were selected from seed.

The story i know from OT's in holland was the OSH clone only were passed out about 87.

It be asurprise to me if Nevil selected in 89 n put out stock the same year without thorough testing.

From nevil words ,I dont even think hazeA was still alive in 89 .Be interesting to know wat year she passed


1luvbigherb
 
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british_hempire

Guest
OTs in Holland? The guy who has held onto the A5 and C5 and HPHaze all these years is the same age as me and not yet 40, I have actually met him more than once.
 
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bigherb

Guest
OTs in Holland? The guy who has held onto the A5 and C5 and HPHaze all these years is the same age as me and not yet 40, I have actually met him more than once.
I hope your not talking about CC

Or Are you sayin johan is only 40 ?

As i understand they were passed to friends not one guy .
 
whats in a name?

i wanted to comment on this in the grail thread a week or two ago, but i had to sign up first.
We use names to try and identify the plants.
the name is only as good as the source you got it from.
im sure there are some outstanding genetics floating around still from the older days, but maybe the names got lost along the way. and with the way that cannabis makes seeds, sometimes those genetics can spread without our knowledge.
i used to trust in sensi. bad germination but i got one female out of a pack of jh, and it was awesome.
then i got busted.
it was hard, but i knew id have to scrape up the money and get jack again, why waste time trying to find something as good.
well, there were 6 females 4 males to chose from this time instead of just one, but i dont have any high hopes for them. they just dont have that strong citrus "hazey" vapor fume. and i shelled out for 2 packs of them. maybe there is still a chance.:(
i also picked up thier mr nice, 8 females 2 males
collected pollen from one of the males, have cuts of 3 jh males and the 2 mr nice males
then i find mns forums, and find out all the stuff that happenned when i wasnt paying attention, and that i think i couldve done better by investing in mns stock versus sensi.
sorry to go a little off topic, but since the haze is a big part of jh, ssh, and
a5 diesel cut (not sour diesel right) and the epigenetic comment, i thought id ask any of you out there if you have grown cuts, and have one pop up after a couple cycles that is different. i will get a pic of this plant later and post it.
it was on a tray with green crack and romulan x diesel, it was supposed to be one of 3 romulan x diesel cuts. the thing didnt even start flowering until the rest was almost ready to cut. as i thought it was something special, it has as good of a fuelly vapor glue fruity smell as the good jh.
what nevil said about little flat triangle buds caught my attention
today is day 100 for this thing, i polinated 1 branch with gc,(it was a hermie)
one branch with a black rosex purple wreck male, and one branch heavily with a mr nice male. id like to try to reveg it, but those seeds might be the only part that will survive.
all the other rd1, rd2, and rd3s were done around 60, and weve seen them all. this cant be some mixed up strain, we dont have anything else like this.
but i see haze in this romulan x diesel, how did it surface on its own?
 

Yosemite Sam

Active member
OTs in Holland? The guy who has held onto the A5 and C5 and HPHaze all these years is the same age as me and not yet 40, I have actually met him more than once.
Hey Br_He,

The original cuttings of nevils first hybrids were passed by Nevil to J. in Holland in the early '80's, around 84. Haze A male died around the same period. The haze hybrids that were passed to J. were kept alive by a guy named Bonk, he started the first internet site to pass his knowledge about growing haze years after cause the skill of growing good haze was a mysterie for most growers, check out bOnK's Groenoord - GreenTings | How to grow marihuana.
Bonk passed the clones to several other good people, including myself to grow them. He always asked us not to make mothers out of them but to just grow them out of respect of Nevil the maker of the hybrids.

It is also because of Bonk that Nevil could regain his hybrids and the original Male C Haze to start his seedbank in A'dam in the late '80 begin '90.
I think we all, even Nevil and Shanti owe Bonk a hell of a lot, for keeping the hybrids and male Haze C alive in absence of Nevil in the mid/late '80's. Nevil got back in Holland in the late '80s and took cuttings of the best haze hybrids and the male C from Bonk with him to A'dam to start his seedbank.

PS: Bonk and J. are older then Nevil is.

Regards,
YS
 
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