Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

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british_hempire said:
The problem is in the terminology. What should we call these worked descendants of landraces? Heirlooms?
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I agree on terminology there bh .
it lacks with cannabis ,
i got some seeds from a friend who said ""blah blah"
is very typical .
vegetables seem better recorded , i guess due to legality .

be nice to see something similar to the heirloom vegetable varieties offered ,
man im like a kid in a lolly shop with them ..
 
british_hempire said:
The problem is in the terminology. What should we call these worked descendants of landraces? Heirlooms?
Click to expand...

I was about to say What's the Difference Between an Heirloom & a Landrace?

As I see It; You have Biotypes that Evolve in valley's & pockets across the planet.

They form the "Heirloom types" as Kanga has outlined in a previous thead with Thia Biotypes, which breed true to Type but with an exceptable amout of genetic Drift within the strain.

A Landrace???Is that the The overlap between strains being more diverse? or the same as an Heirloom?
 
This is how things get started

Bushpig said:
I was about to say What's the Difference Between an Heirloom & a Landrace?

As I see It; You have Biotypes that Evolve in valley's & pockets across the planet.

They form the "Heirloom types" as Kanga has outlined in a previous thead with Thia Biotypes, which breed true to Type but with an exceptable amout of genetic Drift within the strain.

A Landrace???Is that the The overlap between strains being more diverse? or the same as an Heirloom?
Click to expand...

Maybe We should look closer at the Heirloom definition. It may be a term We want to add. With Heirloom Tomatos, My conotation was that they were esentially the same as they were over 100 years ago. True breeding, from pockets across the planet.
 
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Hempy, what do you think of using the term "heirloom" to describe the old-school lines you and others grew?

The "official" definition of landrace is of a mostly unworked plant which arises from natural selection. The true breeding strains you saw back in the day could never have become uniform through natural selection. Nature is different every year after all.

Also, everyone should be nice to Hempy. We are in a period of time when general cannabis knowledge is increasing at a seemingly exponential rate and when knowledge expands so does the lexicon. We should strive for understanding here.
 
Kanga

nice to see ya back and hope all is well down there


im far from an expert and never claim to be ,i dont have experience with landrace varieties but the info ive come across threw the years has lead to my opinions of which i was sharing .im hear to learn aswell as contribute if i can

any thoughts on the colombian thread link i posted ?

as for valley i was speaking generally but i think the hindu kush region would be the best example because it is extremely diverse.

what constiutes an IBL ?acclimation of a plant over many years

just sharing some thoughts

if thats the belief then ive pondered on the fact that aside from acclimation we have varities which have come from india via seed from bird or animals or man .which are reported true indica n threw natural process pollinated afghanicas n are considered by some kush varities are these not ibls ?

how about the reported sativa looking plants in afghanistan where these brought by man or animal or acclimated after 100's or thousands of years?

I ask will these soo called true breeds look smell n taste exactly the same as some believe if they were grown in hawaii ?

id love to hear some thoughts



1luvbigherb
 
Wanted to Thank everyone here for their dedicated, concentrated Efforts....

I don't usually read threads in my spare time anymore, but I am impressed with you fellows here!!!

I usually do my own research, and make my own Threads with all the time I spend online.
...And I confess that I haven't read more than 15 pages of this one, but I'd like to share a post I made on the 19.5 N latitudes, because I'd like to mention it here.

I do a lot of quote and paste postings, ....and this is one of them.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3871351&postcount=194

Now, this 19.5 concept intrigues me, as it includes the Yucatan, Hawaii and even parts of Thailand.

I'm not sure where the best grow locations are for Sativas, but I keep buying and reading books, and just love researching so much.

Take Care Everyone:)
 
Deran,

I read a couple posts of yours in this thread, and actually believe that you and I share some of the same mind-set, interests and goals!
It's cool....maybe the Greeks said it best by calling the pyramids wheat cakes:)

Okay, the Panama Red you loved, is something I am fixated upon very much btw.
-And I want to see and smoke it someday soon.

I'm not sure if a 'Grail' could beat the qualities of that famed Red Sativa, (from what I've read)
In the forum where I live, people's ears have likely become burned by how incessantly I talk about reviving it's character traits later this year, with the help of some of it's genetic relatives or neighboring Landraces.

I harbor a good deal of mixed emotions over the way that Landraces have been packaged and soldout to the masses, but I'm not angry. Although I do cringe when I hear others celebrating their acquisition of an heirloom so they can make a quick hybridization rather than an initial preservation.

I came after the heyday of the great american Sativas, and consequently have a much different overall outlook after witnessing the aftermath of so much genetic depletion.
But, I'm excited to see soooo many great thinkers around here...and I feel very good about the future and the likelihood of genetic revivals.

Have a Great Weekend Folks!!!
 
hempy said:
Donald your kidding me right ?.

Donald i am reading this post from you and i am a little taken back and surprised and something i could have posted to you on so many ocations and would have been justified to do so but i did not and i see you post this directed at to me i am sorry but this is laughable.



BH if you throw 10 seeds from a given pure strain and the 10 turn out female all 10 will be exact looking females will look the same smell the same and smoke the same.

If you have not seen this then you haver not grown pure lines.
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Hi hempy ,
im not sure whats so laughable ,
im just asking you to tone down your insults and interact like the rest of us do ..
im confused on what you are calling a pure strain ,,
are you referrring to a landrace strain , or an inbred line , ??
 
bfskinner said:
what do you think of using the term "heirloom" to describe the old-school lines you and others grew?
Click to expand...

Heirlooms are supposed to be necessarely the result of an open-pollination.

Landraces are supposed to be made without human intervention... for me it is natural hemp.

Inbred line seems a more correct denomination.

Peace.

K.
 
Thanx for the welcome back guy's:D

Ok it seems as if we have sorted this landrace theory out a bit.
From what I have always understood that Hempy said that the strains of old that he grew always bred true, something which I support as well, because the MJ we recieved in OZ was not full of seed like the open pollinated landraces that Donald and BH are talking about.....How many fully seeded Thai sticks have you guys seen ??? I am sorry i have to use Thai sticks, but that was the most common strain that appeared on the oz market and it is also something that I have seen growing in the places i mentioned.
In fact all of the strains I have seen in my travels growing have not had males open pollinating them.
We know that the Lebanese open pollinated there plants for hash production, so I am sure there is a lot of diversity in that strain, I will have a look next year when I do this strain and give my opinion, we also know that the hand rub charas strains were not open pollinated and that shows in the Malana Cream and Nepalese I have growing this year.
Maybe Heirloom landraces is the term we should be using and wild landraces is the other, to avoid anymore confusion and bickering:D

Lol....ok Inbred landrace lines then.
 
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bigherb said:
Kanga

nice to see ya back and hope all is well down there


im far from an expert and never claim to be ,i dont have experience with landrace varieties but the info ive come across threw the years has lead to my opinions of which i was sharing .im hear to learn aswell as contribute if i can

any thoughts on the colombian thread link i posted ?

as for valley i was speaking generally but i think the hindu kush region would be the best example because it is extremely diverse.

what constiutes an IBL ?acclimation of a plant over many years

just sharing some thoughts

if thats the belief then ive pondered on the fact that aside from acclimation we have varities which have come from india via seed from bird or animals or man .which are reported true indica n threw natural process pollinated afghanicas n are considered by some kush varities are these not ibls ?

how about the reported sativa looking plants in afghanistan where these brought by man or animal or acclimated after 100's or thousands of years?

I ask will these soo called true breeds look smell n taste exactly the same as some believe if they were grown in hawaii ?

id love to hear some thoughts



1luvbigherb
Click to expand...

Thanx BH, sorry mate I havent had time to read through all the threads yet as i am still busy down here fixing stuff up and my family has just returned from OS, so I will get back to you soon on that one....cheers K
 
Kangativa said:
Thanx BH, sorry mate I havent had time to read through all the threads yet as i am still busy down here fixing stuff up and my family has just returned from OS, so I will get back to you soon on that one....cheers K
Click to expand...

i look forward to it

i have family in melbourne which luckily wasnt affected but they told me of the news

best wishes

1luvbigherb
 
Hi All


well alot of information in this thread...and an afternoons read imo.

A little bit of info I will add on the debate about landraces subject. In my travels I have sort out landraces which i defined as those races either found naturally occurring in the area or introduced races from historic times and let to breed in closed pockets over time. So landraces in the same country can vary considerably and I ,90% of the time have to cull 90-95% of the so called landraces pool seeds grown as there is alot of crap to wade through to find something outstanding. These landraces have developed for reasons and these reasons are related to adaption to an environment...so the fit survive and the rest die out.

Recently I have tried hard to find something interesting from India, and also from reunion island(zamal sativa)...but did not really find anything worthy of breeding with...to date.

In Thailand the landraces vary considerably depending upon if you source seed from Cambodian area, or Vietnam area or Laos area or Burma area....so do not think it is a clear cut story with easy answers like in mathematics...it is not.

Having said all that, when you understand general characteristics of a landrace that you are looking for then the story is easier to solve. So even though generalisations are not a good thing, they evolve from semi truths.

As I said on several occasions, if 100 of us went to the same film on the same day I will guarantee there will be more than 10 different and valid responses to what was viewed...all worthy to those who watched it but all different when it boils down to the core.

Be well and all the best sb
 
Shanti an idea

Shanti,

By no means do I say I know more, or not. Yet I have a suggestion on where to look. I haven't visited in sometime, but have a large family in South, and Central America. Is it still possible to find some landraces not polluted down there? I know the widow comes from south america partly. Just a thought I had. If I can ever make it down there. I'd be glad to look into it, but that will not liekyl happen for years...Ns
 
I just Can't Let this Go, sorry........ (:blush:)

Nevil said:
The biggest compliment that you can pay an enlightened breeder, is to keep his work alive.
N.
Click to expand...
You've said some pretty darn profound statements, of which I've read under many of my friends signatures, but I'd like to paste additional words on the tail of this sentence, (pardon me:))

...to keep his work alive,...( and give to it- your love, because they need your Light!)

Sorry for hijacking a lil today....but I can see that you and this group are very kind, thought-provoking and intellectually progressive.

And, I'm still attempting to 'tune-in' to the discussion, but I may be able to pop in once a week, I think?! -I have a Taxonomy Social group with almost 70 of the nicest, well-intended growers I've met and spoken with over the past 4 yrs. But listen, I'm not bragging, just brushing yous up on my world. Our taxonomy is sort of oldschool, folk farm classifications, where we've scraped the elitist Cannabis Taxes(soooo dynamic imo), and adopted the character traits model, just like what is used for general agriculture in various zones around the world.

We reject ideas such as seed freezing, cloning, plant re-veg, artificial sunshine....even the making one too many seedlots of a strain in a given year.

We use off and on labels for plants of a seedlot that either do, or don't make the Tax structure desired, as well as pollenation rules such as: An In-line requires 20 on-plant mates, whereas a hybrid strain would benefit from an on-plant, open pollenation of 100.
...As well as other language, that steps over words like 'pure' and 'landrace' ie. (Distinct, yet not Diverse) and (diversely-distinct)
-I'm not smarter than my friends, and we use simple tax" to make cannabis (seem) simple.)

I feel that Cannabis traits keep rushing into land areas, like waves from an ocean....and we use a combo of faith and strict handling formats, which includes documentation of individual plant taxes,...to the end of getting ourselves some pinnacle plant seedlots come early 2012.

Again, I'd like to extend my thanks to all in attendance for making a place well worth one's time and conscientious effort(of forming posts).

And Nevil, ....you bee a good thread host...bless you Sir;)
 
I think we are getting somewhere now

Seems like we are making headway now.

I hope Nevil is still here. I came here to work with him and pick his brain.

He gives this place extended credibility. MNS already has a great name. Nevil being here extends that. They obviously have the real deal strains, or He wouldnt be here. His being here caused me to become enthusastic toward running a long winded breeding project of Sativas and Hazes. ( I immediatly bought MNS SSH, Mango Haze,Nevilles Haze) and I wouldnt normally do that. Why would I , when I could drop a pound and a half of OG Kush, Headband, GDP,or Orange Crush?

Three years ago, My Youngest Son told Me about Nevilles Haze. He said I should try it if I ever got the chance. His comment stuck in My brain.

Mr. Alkaline: Please keep clones. Otherwise all Your great finds will be lost, and not shared with the rest of Us. I have some Panama going, but I really would liked to have some of the old school Panama, that We got in the 70s.


SEEDS Something Ive thot about for awhile. There wasnt seeds in most all of the top quality weed in those days. Only in Colombian Red. For some reason I didnt save them. Everything else was Senso back then.
 
I'm still reluctant to post here, sorry...

I manage the dj helpdesk at icmag.
I can't promise to visit once a week, cause I'm swamped(as usual)

But, I've cloned my ideas, and the work plays out without my involvement nowadays:)
...The goal was always to make myself obsolete over there!!!

We now have members willing to live in the Tropics to have a go at resurrecting lost heritage(s).

This work is far beyond soil.....ferts....plant numbers and coaxing outdoor(in general).
-it has evolved into an effort to allow a Christ-conscious oil profile to emerge, at or upon specific sites and annual, seasonal Times.

We've geared up to measure everything cannabis, and actually get things done that are of paramount importance to our group(us).

No tidbit of research is ignored or left unattended.....and perhaps energies of the 5th plane of dimension can become found at location and used as ferts for coaxing upper, more subtle-yet powerful aspects of this Unity Conscious, MindBody-vata imbalance restoring, cellular transforming herbal, sat med?!?!
 
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