Are SSH, Jack Herer and Diesel the same thing?

Here is a description from a local guy about a NL5Hz he used to have.

"It was a VERY special plant that leaned way to the Haze side, took at least 95 days to flower. It was extremely potent, in fact, I don't think I've ever had anything stronger in the sativa dept. If you weren't acclimated to it, it would lay people to waste, barfing, having to go outside and walk around, heart-pounding, paranoia inducing madness. Had may a cannisseur say it's too strong! hehe It was somewhat legendary at the time!"

He said he got the beans from Sensi about 15 years ago.

Is this a NL5xHzA? or a NL5xHzC?
 
I've have made that staff member smoke nothing but Afghani #1 for a year for losing that male! lol
The punishment must fit the crime. Smoking A#1 would be a punishment for distributing A#1 seeds.
I was very upset. At times like these, the classic source of inspiration is King Solomon ( Although Solomon was young, he soon became known for his wisdom. The first and most famous incident of his cleverness as a judge was when two women came to his court with a baby whom both women claimed as their own. Solomon threatened to split the baby in half.) While thinking of a suitable punishment I tried to channel King Solomon, ( who was no doubt an ancestor or a past incarnation anyway).
The vision came to me of chaining his balls to a concrete block and injecting them with hydrochloric acid. Being merciful, I'd allow him to live if he wanted to, I'd throw him a blunt knife.

The fact is, it was my responsibility to see that he did his job properly. At least HzA still lives through the NH. But I do regret loosing it prematurely.
Worse was loosing the First Haze female. She was similar in type to HzA, but I suspect a generation earlier. In my mind, it was the Haze archetype. I should have put HzA to that plant. There wasn't anything sweet about FH (First Haze), like the progeny from HzA, she was spicy leathery and people would often recoil if they came into a room where you had been smoking it.
The Haze C was sweeter and generally a better breeding plant because of this, otherwise C and A were equal in quality. HzA hybrids could yield more. In the NH, HzC accounts for 50% of the genetics, yet the predominant good pheno is the HzA type.
I would say that both A and C were from a sibling to FH and I'd guess that the true OH prior to '69 is the spicy leather type which I associate with the Chocolate Buddha Thai of the early'70s. The F1 NH is a time capsule, throwing back to the past glories of the S.E Asian masters IMO. We must use it well. Do you know what the punishment was for mating HzA to the wrong female? Suffice to say that the machinations of a vengeful universe were exquisitely appropriate.

I'm not wearing any more karma for fuck ups. From now on we are all responsible for the Grail Mother. I don't want to scare you with the penalty for blowing it, but if you do, "welcome to my nightmare!"
N.
 
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G`day NVL
Your King Soloman analogy took me back to grd 1 when after an incident with a reader that lost its cover,And was found in the book shelf .Myself and the older boy who was listening to me read were put in front of the blackboard and spanked on the bum with a b-board ruler alternatively to try an get the truth ![which I had already told ]this went on an on for some time .Eventually the ol Nun must have gotten tired .
So we spent the rest of the day in the office .After school finished for the day we were not allowed to go home but instead we were questioned by the local Detective Sgt !
This was not a great introduction to justice and impacted negatively on the way I looked at LEO to this day . WTF I was 5 yrs old FFs ,if this happened today there would be an outrage in the media !
Man some of the posts I read here really stir my emotions both positive an negative .Yin /Yang I guess .
Thanks for sharin .
Elmer Bud.
 
The punishment must fit the crime. Smoking A#1 would be a punishment for distributing A#1 seeds.
I was very upset. At times like these, the classic source of inspiration is King Solomon ( Although Solomon was young, he soon became known for his wisdom. The first and most famous incident of his cleverness as a judge was when two women came to his court with a baby whom both women claimed as their own. Solomon threatened to split the baby in half.) While thinking of a suitable punishment I tried to channel King Solomon, ( who was no doubt an ancestor or a past incarnation anyway).
The vision came to me of chaining his balls to a concrete block and injecting them with hydrochloric acid. Being merciful, I'd allow him to live if he wanted to, I'd throw him a blunt knife.

The fact is, it was my responsibility to see that he did his job properly. At least HzA still lives through the NH. But I do regret loosing it prematurely.
Worse was loosing the First Haze female. She was similar in type to HzA, but I suspect a generation earlier. In my mind, it was the Haze archetype. I should have put HzA to that plant. There wasn't anything sweet about FH (First Haze), like the progeny from HzA, she was spicy leathery and people would often recoil if they came into a room where you had been smoking it.
The Haze C was sweeter and generally a better breeding plant because of this, otherwise C and A were equal in quality. HzA hybrids could yield more. In the NH, HzC accounts for 50% of the genetics, yet the predominant good pheno is the HzA type.
I would say that both A and C were from a sibling to FH and I'd guess that the true OH prior to '69 is the spicy leather type which I associate with the Chocolate Buddha Thai of the early'70s. The F1 NH is a time capsule, throwing back to the past glories of the S.E Asian masters IMO. We must use it well. Do you know what the punishment was for mating HzA to the wrong female? Suffice to say that the machinations of a vengeful universe were exquisitely appropriate.

I'm not wearing any more karma for fuck ups. From now on we are all responsible for the Grail Mother. I don't want to scare you with the penalty for blowing it, but if you do, "welcome to my nightmare!"
N.


thanks for your great post wit the extra thought as i tried to reply b4 hand and thanks for your honesty

we cant change whats done but as long as we learn from our mistakes it was worth a lesson .

i would kill for less (joking not really tho lol),that punishment would have been deserving but you cant imagine what i would have done LOL


if we could only turn back the hands of time .well i know one of my first stops when the time machine becomes available

its amazing a dream to hear you speak of the parents (ive always asked/wanted to know more),most appreciated anymore details you can pm me first than post it lol joking again i dont laugh muh nevil but you seem to put me in a good mood once in a while (this was definetly somthin i needed today especially)


i have to ask again the first haze female parent i have to know was she used in your first haze hybrid release,its my understanding she is the haze female from the SB 88 haze X nl#1?

if soo its possible a leaning pheno survives as a clone or maybe in a can in someones attic is a pack of seeds .

But I do regret loosing it prematurely.
Worse was loosing the First Haze female.

wow this speaks volumes

also you say
At least HzA still lives through the NH
.

doesnt she still survive in nl5haze as a clone ?
isnt this a better representation of expression of the haze A since the nl5 isnt dom in taste/aroma ?

im sure the nl5haze clone survives because i believe this is how new nevilles haze seed stock is made ,soo isnt it possible to select a nevilles haze male to cross to the nl5haze clone ?

i believe i suggested this already but id love to hear your thoughts as an option for the grail


the haze A the the FH would have been a dream and possibly the grail aka the kings haze

There wasn't anything sweet about FH (First Haze), like the progeny from HzA, she was spicy leathery and people would often recoil if they came into a room where you had been smoking it

I'd guess that the true OH prior to '69 is the spicy leather type which I associate with the Chocolate Buddha Thai of the early'70s. The F1 NH is a time capsule, throwing back to the past glories of the S.E Asian masters IMO

:D:D:D

amazing this is very pleasing and hurts at the same time

this info has made my week :D,this has been my opinion all along aswell this is the haze i grew up on ,id love too see it in seed form

not sure if i have already but id love to know ,apologies if soo ,im sure i would recall

i have to ask have you smoked OHAZE of the 70's from the haze bro's aside from the stock you have grown ,im askin if you actually got your hands on smoke that was grown in santa cruz ?


thankyou again ,this post was most appreciated im at a loss for words


1luvbigherb
 
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There are a number of HzA daughter cuts still alive . To my knowledge, there are
NL5HzA
G13HzA
HPHzA
SKHzA

There may also be some seed that could still be germinated.
you seem to put me in a good mood once in a while
If someone gives me something nice to smoke,(thanks Wal) I get inclined to tell stories. I've got loads of them. Some make me look good some don't, but the facts are the facts.

I've never smoked OH from Santa Cruz, I wish that I had, I'd be able to put the puzzle together more accurately. I've smoked a couple of Sam's, but he blew it. I'm sure he didn't get his remaining '69 seeds to germ or he didn't keep cuts, either way he must be suffering some karmic debt in some way. I suppose I could say (in my own defence) that I fucked it up less than everyone else and I still have hope that I can make things right.
N.
 
Thanks for the info Nev, and great post, made me chuckle, your sense of humour is pretty sharp! I know a farmer who cut his own arm off with a blunt penknife, he was out on his tractor, way up on the fells far from help and the damn thing rolled over trapping him by his arm. He was slowly bleeding to death when he remembered his trusty old penkife was in his pocket. He cut the arm off and walked home, rang am ambulance and is still around to tell the tale. Dunno if I could have done that!

Interesting spicy leather makes you think of Thai, to me it makes me think of Colombian as there is nothing sweet about Colombians I've tried and I much prefer the spicy, nutty, woodsy, hashy flavours over anything sweet.

Nev, do you think you will ever be able to find another line as good as the Haze you had?

Sam says he didn't linebreed Haze he just tried to save it, makes me wonder just how many Haze plants he had to work with and what he did with them, I'm guessing open pollination. From your descriptions, he clearly sold you really old seeds, did he offer you any newer Haze seeds he had made himself?
 
I've been thinking quite a bit about a G13.HzA x G13.HzC mating. Some of you will have smoked the G13HzC. It was pretty good. A grower would have picked the NL5HzC as the better plant, and so would a dealer but there'd be more than a few smokers who would argue the toss.
Crossing the two G13Hz lines would not give you a stable hybrid like the F1, but I reckon you'd find a few phenos that would make your jaw drop!
Some of the G13HzC's would keep on flowering with flat triangular buds. You'd cut one budlet(?) off and it didn't look like much weight, but the whole branch would be weighed down with these crazy triangles and they just kept on coming.
In the '80s, the mentality of the day was, sea of green and fast yields. Most guys wouldn't have looked at the later G13Hz types. I'd like to see what Hempy could do with one.
N.
 
From your descriptions, he clearly sold you really old seeds, did he offer you any newer Haze seeds he had made himself?

I was already set up to grow and didn't waste time with these old seeds. I think I started with the oldest stuff first, a few hundred. One came up. A bloody slow wispy thing. Sam and Rob came around about a year later when it was freshly harvested. Their eyes lit up like it was Christmas and got stuck into it. It was clear they hadn't had anything like that for a while. I crossed it with of all things a
Ruderalis.Shady LadyxNL1 X NL1. I wanted to see how the Ruderalis gene would cope with the most difficult plant in the world. I just threw a handful of these seeds in a large pot with rockwool and chopped the males. They were ripe before the mother. I hung them on the line and more or less forgot about them. After I smoked the mother, I went looking for them and decided to make hash out of it. It had been dry for a while and it was brittle. It had plenty of resin which started coming off the buds as I moved them. It was the best damn hash that I've ever smoked. But I'm raving. What was the question? Oh yeah
did he offer you any newer Haze seeds he had made himself?
He didn't show me anything until well after the 5Hz was making its name. It was that Lime thing. I was used to much better. Two or 3 years had gone by, and I was working with Hz ABCDE.
After that I got the Purple Crap Haze from him. My last hope faded. I didn't believe that he could produce the goods any more so I wasn't too interested in his Hazes. I'd guess that Sam must of had a couple of difficult years around that time that stopped him from using his remaining old seeds on time. He probably had to work with the stuff he made himself in the mid '70s. Such is life!
N.
 
There are a number of HzA daughter cuts still alive . To my knowledge, there are
NL5HzA
G13HzA
HPHzA
SKHzA

There may also be some seed that could still be germinated.

If someone gives me something nice to smoke,(thanks Wal) I get inclined to tell stories. I've got loads of them. Some make me look good some don't, but the facts are the facts.

I've never smoked OH from Santa Cruz, I wish that I had, I'd be able to put the puzzle together more accurately. I've smoked a couple of Sam's, but he blew it. I'm sure he didn't get his remaining '69 seeds to germ or he didn't keep cuts, either way he must be suffering some karmic debt in some way. I suppose I could say (in my own defence) that I fucked it up less than everyone else and I still have hope that I can make things right.
N.

nevil

the last three or atleast 2 & 3 are what id consider OSH meaning the clone only's that you passed around to your friends from S.holland.i was told by shanti that the osh has nothin to do with mns hybrids ,soo it was my thought the only logical reason would be because there are not in the mns facilities but survive threw the good folks in S.holland .

as for seed this was always a hope i have kept as shanti said somthin that most of what has been bred is atleast alive as seed stock .



If someone gives me something nice to smoke,(thanks Wal) I get inclined to tell stories. I've got loads of them. Some make me look good some don't, but the facts are the facts.

if thats the case ,if i could id make sure you had an endless supply of goods .i think this means we/mns members should start a fund to have you heavily supplied all year round

I've never smoked OH from Santa Cruz, I wish that I had, I'd be able to put the puzzle together more accurately

my thoughts exactly ,with your memory and detailed response things would be much clearer

this is why ive asked the question of who has experienced the cruz haze since first joing the net ,sadly im still with a handful of response


I crossed it with of all things a
Ruderalis.Shady LadyxNL1 X NL1

this was the cross i referred to in my previous post. ive asked a few times ,this is too me very important in history as this can go on the most wanted clone list if soo
Again im curious to know if this was your first released haze hybrid as haze X nl ?

if soo i believe the term is maybe her (progeny) survives in a pack of seeds or as a clone

your info is most appreciated always ,im working on that supply as of now


1luvbigherb
 
The Philly crew had the SkHazA also. Hmmmmm. Nevil it is looking more and more like they whom made the diesel without a doubt (at least in my mind) had your genetics.

I'm starting to come to the following conclusion - Almost every memorable plant I have encountered from the past 25 years of experiences with Cannabis came from Nevil, now to include the Diesel.

He is like the "Timothy Leary of Cannabis," but internationally. Nixon once referred to Timothy Leary as the most dangerous man in america. Nevil is the most dangerous man in Cannabis breeding, NO equals. Sorry SB no disrespect but you know what I'm saying is true even more than myself, you're lucky enough to know him personally.

The SkHzA was a VERY sweet plant. WOW was it sweet. The ISS is good but the "skaze" as they called it, was mouth watering candied sweet goodness. I remember buying a 1/4 ounce and I smoked the whole thing in 48 hours. I could not stop smoking it because of the flavor. It was like bubblegum flavor with a pleasant Haze high. It was way less intense than the 5HzC and less psychedelic IMO, but still INCREDIBLY potent, 4 hour high.
 
The Philly crew had the SkHazA also. Hmmmmm. Nevil it is looking more and more like they whom made the diesel without a doubt (at least in my mind) had your genetics.

I'm starting to come to the following conclusion - Almost every memorable plant I have encountered from the past 25 years of experiences with Cannabis came from Nevil, now to include the Diesel.

He is like the "Timothy Leary of Cannabis," but internationally. Nixon once referred to Timothy Leary as the most dangerous man in america. Nevil is the most dangerous man in Cannabis breeding, NO equals. Sorry SB no disrespect but you know what I'm saying is true even more than myself, you're lucky enough to know him personally.

The SkHzA was a VERY sweet plant. WOW was it sweet. The ISS is good but the "skaze" as they called it, was mouth watering candied sweet goodness. I remember buying a 1/4 ounce and I smoked the whole thing in 48 hours. I could not stop smoking it because of the flavor. It was like bubblegum flavor with a pleasant Haze high. It was way less intense than the 5HzC and less psychedelic IMO, but still INCREDIBLY potent, 4 hour high.

sup kyle

thanks for in the info on sk/hz A,i would have thought the plant to be spicy/darker in tate/aromas ,my experience with 1 pheno of sk/hz C was the aromas were sweet tropical fruity catpiss but the taste was darker more of the spicy incense the other was very reminescent of wat i kno as JH

im curious what does philly have to do with diesel in your opinion?

id love to know if and when this sk/hz A was released ?



1luvbigherb
 
Hey There Big Herb,

Many years have passed since I smoked the "skaze" and I never grew it so my experience is very limited. However the thing I mostly remember was how sweet the aroma was. There were some hints of Haze but not like the 5HzC (which is what I defined as haze up to that point).

When first presented with those beauiful flowers I remember stating skunk. And my buddy was like yup skunk haze. It was soon called the "skaze" by many of my friends.

After smoking it there were some definite hints of Haze in it's flavor but it was WAY different than the incensey eyes watering from THC head spinning from THCV? experience from the 5HzC. It was a very pleasant high with less raciness than the 5HzC and a predominantly sweet with a slight pine flavor noticed on the sides of my tongue (this I remember). And there was certainly NO catpiss in that SKHzA, mostly skunk not a hint of pussy.

As far as the Diesel Philly connection goes, the first time I ever sa diesel was in this area. It was presented to me by someone who knew people who had MANY incredible cuttings. I talked about it in an earlier post. These cuttings were the best examples I have ever seen of the SKHzA, 5HzC, Kali Mist, Great White Shark, and the absolute stinkiest plant I have ever smelled, they called it "hashplant." I was lucky enough to grow the original Super Skunk from Sensi in 93 or 94 and this was the only plant I ever grew that reminded me of that cutting that this crew had. My Super Skunk selection was not as strong as their cut though. Their cut was the only cutting ever that made me imagine what it would be like to be stuck inside a dead skunks arse.

Someone mentioned that an employee of Sensi Seed Bank could have taken cuttings from Nevil's selections. Many of these were cup winning cuts selected by Nevil. It is my notion that the people I knew in Philly had many of these cuts. It is also my assertion that these are the dudes responsible for "making" (crossing Nevil's work) the original "diesel." Here I go sticking my neck out again but thats what us Cannabis lovers do.

One of the cuts in the possesion of these guys and gals was also probably the diesel cut that Nevil was talking about. I don't want to share much more of my speculation regarding how they breed the diesel but I'am pretty sure they used Nevil's work removed from the Sensi Seed Bank to do so.

Possibly they took that female "hashplant" cutting crossed to Nev's 5HzC male? Or a male hashplant to Nev's "diesel" Haze cut to make "chemdawg" than to the 5HzC to create the diesel. Just a hunch. I don't know but if Nevil was given a cut of what most of us have known as diesel and grows it perhaps he could see his work as well?

The More You Know,

KB 8)_~
 
Possibly they took that female "hashplant" cutting crossed to Nev's 5HzC male? Or a male hashplant to Nev's "diesel" Haze cut to make "chemdawg" than to the 5HzC to create the diesel. Just a hunch. I don't know but if Nevil was given a cut of what most of us have known as diesel and grows it perhaps he could see his work as well?
~

Well, Chemdawg came from Colorado originally so unless the people you knew in Detroit passed it to guys in Colorado then I doubt you're right on that one. I expect the exact origins and lineage of the Chemdawgs will forever remain a mystery unless the guys from Colorado who grew the buds that the Chemdawg seeds were pulled from surface with the answer.

Wonkanobe, the guy who sold the buds to chemdog (the guy) posted for 3 years on overgrow about where that bud came from, he summarised what he knew at icmag in 2007:

The bud was grown by two indirect friends of mine from Crested Butte CO. I bought 2 to 3 pounds of it in a month or two window and it was GONE. The two friends who grew it were construction worker/cowboy types. Never got a chance to speak withthem about it and never will more then likely.

The NAMES came from the guy who sold it to me called it the dawg and I thought it tasted chemmy and named it chem.

That fuel diesal taste and smell to me at the time was like chem so the rest is history. The best part of the story is Chemdog and I were reunited in 06 after 16 or so years. I searched for him for over 3 years online and JJ from NYC reunited us after all that time. I explained my chem story on overgrow for mor then 3 yrs and in the beginning for like two plus everyone thought I was talking shit NO ONE believed me not even my wife and friends. CRAZY

So there you have it from the horse's mouth - Chemdawg came from Crested Butte, CO and that is all that is known and will probably ever be known.

pbud, the other guy who was involved in the handling of the original chemdawg buds said this at icmag in 2007:

To me I think the chem d is the most similiar to the original dawg joebrand and i got in co. in the 90's. Taste and smell.

Here is the Chem D cutting, maybe Nev recognises it?

11088chemdawgd9-med.JPG


The lineage of the diesels is known as guys who were involved were online a while ago and the info was shared:

At a Grateful Dead show at Deer Creek Amphitheatre, 'joebrand' (aka 'wonkanobe') and 'pbud' met 'chemdog' and sold him an ounce of very high quality pot for $500. joe and chemdog exchanged numbers and they later arranged for two ounces to be shipped to chemdog on the east coast. According to chemdog, one ounce was seedless and the other had 13 seeds.

In ’91, chemdog popped the first 4 seeds. From these seeds, one male was found and disposed of (chemdog was young, you can’t blame him). The 3 females were labeled ‘chemdawg’ (now ’91 chemdawg), ‘chemdawg a’ (now chemdawg’s sister), and ‘chemdawg b’. In '01, chemdog and his girlfriend attempted to germ 3 more seeds, labeled ‘c’, ‘d’, and ‘e’. the ‘e’ seed never germinated, ‘c’ turned out to be junk (according to chemdog), and chemdawg ‘d’ was the keeper. In '06, 'chemdog' and 'joebrand' reunited and joe was given 4 of the last 6 beans: Chemdawg phenos 1-4, '4' being the chosen keeper. Joe thought the '4' was the best representation of the original and thus dubbed it the 'reunion pheno'. Chemdog still has two seeds left in his stash.

Chemdawg Crosses:
• 'OG Kush' (the original cut) came from an s1 from in a bag of '91 Chemdawg in the Lake Tahoe area in 1996.
• 'Sour Diesel' aka ECSD came from an accidental cross of ('91 Chemdawg x Mass Super Skunk/NL)x DNL after the DNL hermed and seeded the room. The DNL's lineage is NL/Shiva x Hawaiian.
• Original Diesel' (also known as Diesel #1, Headband, Daywrecker Diesel, Underdawg) came from a cross of '91 Chemdawg x (Mass Super Skunk x Sensi's Northern Lights) done by a guy known as ‘weasel’.
 
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