Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

[bigherb]

i havnt ran tomhill haze and until recently i didnt pay the line much attention ,if you didnt already know my opinion is more incense less nonsense ,in NYC we say if its not church it anint fire ,ive had a convo with tom were he said directly he didnt recognize the incense trait in his haze line and told me to find somthing with the haze A male in it ,ive recently got reports of sandlewood ,musky,spice and was told this line is the real deal wat was remembered as the OHAZE of the old posi 90/91/92 this is wat really attracted me too the line

there are quite a few people from IC i respect that hold this line in high reguard such as hazy lady /CBF /raco



the comarison of tomhillhaze to mns hybrids are interesting but really you cant compare a hybrid ,SAMS has said it many times the haze today (TFD) is best when bred ,soo to find a truly exceptional pheno will take some searching,if you understand wat i mean the mns haze hybrids such as ssh /mh are legends but not pure haze and i desire the pure which is why my first mns grow was nevilles haze ,now i have many seeds atleast 5 pks of tomhill haze wen i have the opportunity i will look for my keeper

words of wisdom,i whole heartily agree with

yes i agree, haze is unique, and crossing it... well you gain hybrid vigour, but you also loose those nuances, depends on type of cross of course, but most hazes crosses tends to loose that something special about OH...sometime im surprised how many crosses are called "haze" when they dont taste like haze and dont get you high like good haze at all...not everybody has to love haze, but everybody who loves cannabis, must agree with preservation of this line..bigup to ACE

98% of the haze hybrids ive smoked from adam have been soo watered down i didnt recognize them as haze i grew up on ,nothing similar to NYC haze ,until i grew out MNS sk/hz and nevilles haze which expressed more of the haze qualities i desire

What was memorable were the Silver Haze and NL5xHaze beans that I bought from Sensi Seed Bank during the same trip. I found the haze hybrids to be exceptional and some of the best Haze, if not the best, that I've ever had

this was somthing i touched on in one of my last post to neville he didnt respond but ,this is somthin that has been said by many OT's who have experienced those 2 strains ,my point was i was asking or hopin nev was goin in this direction for the grail as to bring back the spice of yesteryear and was hopin the direction of the grail would have nothin sweet about it



1luvbigherb

 

[osoloco69]

These are the seeds Ive gotten over the last two months, I have some others in my collection as well

Mr Nice - Mango Haze
Mr Nice - Neville's Haze
Mr Nice - Super Silver Haze
Barney's Farm - Dr. Grinspoon
ACE - Oldtimer's Haze
ACE - Purple Haze x Thai
Holy Smoke - Thunderbud Haze
Soma - Somaui
ACE - Tikal
ACE - Vietnam Black x Thai
DNA Genetics - Sweet Haze
DNA Genetics - Hashplant Haze
DNA Genetics - C13 Haze
ACE - Golden Tiger
ACE - Panama
ACE - Double Thai
Sensi - Mexican Sativa
World of Seeds - Colombian Gold
ACE - Green Haze x Thai
Barney's Farm - Acapulco Gold
Sativa Seedbank - Hawaii Maui Waui
Flying Dutchmen - The Real McCoy

DP

AceSeeds Oldtimer's Haze, Purple Haze x Thai, and Green Haze x Thai should have the female haze listed on the pack. Ace OTHaze beats the piss out of Tom Hill's Haze. The Meao Thai male that is used by Ace in their and CBG crosses is very unique.

Nevil, did you ever work on the Mexican Sativa from Sensi?

 

[Nevil]

Nevil, did you ever work on the Mexican Sativa from Sensi?
Edit/Delete Message

No I did not.
N.

 

[etzchaim]

orginial haze

I'm a certain that this is addressed somewhere in this forum but I have been wading through posts for hours and have yet to come across the answer so forgive my redundancy but has anybody grown out 'original haze' from the flying dutchman, how authentic and hazey is it and what is its relation to the lines used in MNS hybrids such as SSH NH and MH? Worth adding into my breeding program or not?

 

[bigherb]

Dude, that early 90's NL x Haze ruined me for most companies sorry attempts at a Haze hybrid. Wernard's Haze IMO was NOTHING like Neville's. Nev's had the character and flavor Wernard's had the same name period! Purple Haze was fricking acid NOT ganja! But TH has that "famous?" purple haze pehno that everybody? wants. Who wants it? I thought the purple pheno RARELY if EVER had the high that made Nevilles Haze famous worldwide?

as mentioned before there was a thread about the spiceness of these old lines nl5haze /silver haze ,im upset i wasnt old enough then to aquire stock ,it would be amazing if these lines were both re-released

as for your experience we know a day can change everything but 3-5 yrs it's alot more ,my friend had experienced posi stock early as 90 and had only good things to say

Purple Haze was fricking acid NOT ganja!

as for purple haze it was infact real and not just acid ,this is recognized by both SAMS/Neville ,if you have seen it or not the OHAZE poster list magenta which is referred to by the OT's who had the pleasure to smoke it as purple haze or the rootbeer pheno


tom OHAZE line might have som attraction becaz of the % of purple phenos ,but its been said these plants arent as special as the green phenos


1luvbigherb

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Three years ago, I had planned to do an indica and hybrid run outdoors. My oldest Son was on a Haze kick, and beat Me to the punch. The fucker planted Mexican seeds in My grow spot. I never planted that year, but, instead, grew the Mexican Sativas. Because of My job I had to quit smoking for several months. The Mexican Sativas grew wonderful buds, although I never had the pleasure of sampling them. I grew and aged them to perfection, then put them into my childrens Christmas stockings along with chocolates, cheeses, cookies, lottery tickets, jams, and crackers, money and other trinkets.
They all loved the buds and said they were great tasting and had a wonderful uphoric high.
Oh, just to clarify: My children are grown adults.

 

[osoloco69]

Purple Haze was fricking acid NOT ganja!

In '65 or '66 Bear made purple barrels with LSD in them. In '66 Jimi wrote a song about that LSD. The original purple haze named weed was an homage to that same LSD as well. There were a lot of purple phenos that popped up, and that Haze was said to have a high that was super trippy like being on a purple haze barrel. The bay area LSD scene and cannabis scene were almost one and the same back then. People used both frequently, and there were a number of distributors who would sell both. Remember that Santa Cruz is where the Purple Haze was bred by the Haze bros, and that's the county next to SF.

 

[Skunkha]

mileage may vary

I'm a certain that this is addressed somewhere in this forum but I have been wading through posts for hours and have yet to come across the answer so forgive my redundancy but has anybody grown out 'original haze' from the flying dutchman, how authentic and hazey is it and what is its relation to the lines used in MNS hybrids such as SSH NH and MH? Worth adding into my breeding program or not?

search function didn't help?

i ran at least 4 packs of these all purchased before Sensi bought FLD.

they take a long, long time to finish and produce loose wispy buds. a pure sativa all the way with a soaring "high" good mold resistance too. very nute sensitive and desires full sun.

i made seeds of the strain and also crossed it with other plants. the pure plants were the same as the parents from what i could see, i have not progeny tested the hybrids though (i don't expect anything great though to be honest).

to me it is quite telling that even the Haze Bros. started growing Sk#1 instead of the original haze because it was so much easier.

also, i would not merely take anyone's opinion on these boards about growing or breeding. many think they can find a short-cut by what is posted by others only later to be disappointed. there is just no substitute to careful observation and growing. good information is here and on other boards but not many short-cuts.

 

[etzchaim]

Thank you so much for responding and indulging my ignorance. I did try the search function but it appears that there are a plethora of mentions of the flying dutchman and original haze that do not address my question. It certainly sounds like it could have some haze in it but it also sounds like it may just be another pure or near pure sativa. Does anybody know the heritage of the flying dutchmans original haze and its relation to MNS's lines? Perhaps a good candidate for the grail's pedigree as it is stable/true breeding.

 

[vajra]

sorry, meant to pm this note!

 

[vajra]

"HAHAHA I'm sure that quote will have certain people/companies shuddering at the thought of 'their' company 'attempting' to do this without revealling whose work they used/stole without permission."

Thanks for bring this issue up Redeye 420 I've been waiting for an opportunity to bring up the subject of "ownership of strains". There are lots of opinions on the subject and I am only speaking for myself.

If you bought seeds from The Seed Bank. Say NL5 x HzC. You know that this is a Hybrid made from the Haze Brothers male line and the Northern lights female line. You know this because I didn't change the name Haze or Northern Lights. These were the names given to me when I bought the seed.
If you bought Early Pearl x Skunk#1, the same applies. As far as I'm concerned you can do whatever you want with these seeds, except change history. If you want to inbreed Nl5Hz and put F2 seeds on the market, why not you paid for them. You didn't by Chi P variabilis and call it NL5Hz, you paid full price. If are saying that you have bought Seed Bank seed and tell the truth about the ancestry and what you have done (F2), I don't have a problem with you. If you made a 4 way with the EPxSK1 and produce excellent hybrids well the same applies. You may in effect be doing advertising for me or you might get doing what people thought I should have done or people might think that the SK1 one was the biggest influence and chase that up in the future. It's all out there and people can draw there own conclusions. But if you say that you have developed these strains from your own collection, then you're a liar and a cheat.
N.

Nevil, you really do inspire an excellence in others with this attitude. I think that someone who has done as much work as you have only increases the dignity of this pursuit when you are so open handed and decent. Really, thanks, and I hope my humble F2s of your excellent strains can keep me
happy through the years. If I am every in Australia, I'd love to meet you and play darts or whatever you like to do!

Vajra

 

[waverunner_21]

surly there should be a progress check here, keep you hazers on point, focused on the matter in hand. 6o whatever pages, how are we doing here people. how close are we to finding the grail.

 

[La Buena Hierba]

the comarison of tomhillhaze to mns hybrids are interesting but really you cant compare a hybrid ,SAMS has said it many times the haze today (TFD) is best when bred ,soo to find a truly exceptional pheno will take some searching,if you understand wat i mean the mns haze hybrids such as ssh /mh are legends but not pure haze and i desire the pure which is why my first mns grow was nevilles haze ,now i have many seeds atleast 5 pks of tomhill haze wen i have the opportunity i will look for my keeper

Nevil you think the shame way as Sam
Hey said it many times the haze is best when crosst
(whas pure Haze must beter than ssh nevil haze .nl5 x haze?)

sorry again for my bad english hoop you understand.

peace

 

[Ouchie]

Nevil you think the shame way as Sam
Hey said it many times the haze is best when crosst
(whas pure Haze must beter than ssh nevil haze .nl5 x haze?)

sorry again for my bad english hoop you understand.

peace

ok Let's recap what Nevil has brought to light so far! This is what I've learned from this thread. Haze when bred to itself creates unwanted cat piss phenos, when bred to something other than haze it most of the time makes a better plant than what you bred it to, and the haze itself.

Nevil stated himself he thought NL5 x Haze was one of the best Indica/Sativa hybrids of all time!

Northern Lights 5 crossed with Haze male C. Is the best Indica / Sativa hybrid that I've ever done. HzA male to NL5 was also excellent and was the mother of N.H. The HzC was a complex sweet aroma, while HzA produced plants with a leathery smell, more reminisent of the old Thai's.
Complex liver/ leather smell is what I'm looking for in a good Thai descenant to cross with the Haze.
N.

He also stated Nevil's Haze was his personal favorite strain of weed, and haze.

Other things to keep note of, SSH is the same plant as Jack Herrer, Diesel, and many many others

Still a lot of questions about haze and apparently a lot of conflicting stories.
I haven't been paying attention to what Sam the Skunkman has been saying. He lost me years ago and if he wants to come out from behind his alias and go toe to toe with me, well that will be just fine with me (hey David).
If he is saying that he gave me Purple Haze and it was crap, Well that's true. If he is saying that his lime green Haze was crap , well that's true too. If he is saying that he gave me a Haze cutting, well to be honest, I can't remember, but if he did it was crap. I seem to recall that he entered his lime Haze in a Cup, if he did he got his arse kicked.
The Haze seeds I got from Sam were grown in America in 69/70. I got them in the mid 80's. All of my Haze came from these seeds of which I was saying I got 7 plants. I was hoping that Sam would come out with something good from his remaining seeds, he never did and to my knowledge, nor did anyone else. The only good haze that hit the market was from two males A and C.
Hz C male produced 5Hz1 which won a Cup or 2, this was a daughter of NL5 which won a cup. 5Hz1 when crossed with Sk1x HzC produced Silver Haze which won a Cup. Ben renamed it Jack Herrer. Somebody else renamed it Diesel. 5HzC X Sk1Hz C was not as good as 5Hz1. Mango Haze (5Hz122)is a full sister to 5Hz1 and these two were the best out of tens of thousands.
Haze A produced 5HzA2 (5A2) and was featured on the cover of the 1990 catalogue and is the mother of Nevil's Haze, the father being HzC.
If you are smoking any good Haze, I'll bet you London to a brick that it comes from Haze A or Hz C or both!

 

[bushweed]

Three years ago, I had planned to do an indica and hybrid run outdoors. My oldest Son was on a Haze kick, and beat Me to the punch. The fucker planted Mexican seeds in My grow spot. I never planted that year, but, instead, grew the Mexican Sativas. Because of My job I had to quit smoking for several months. The Mexican Sativas grew wonderful buds, although I never had the pleasure of sampling them. I grew and aged them to perfection, then put them into my childrens Christmas stockings along with chocolates, cheeses, cookies, lottery tickets, jams, and crackers, money and other trinkets.
They all loved the buds and said they were great tasting and had a wonderful uphoric high.
Oh, just to clarify: My children are grown adults.

Everyone needs a dad like you

 

[Nevil]

Thanks for putting that together Ouchie. I don't seem to mince words, but I'm trying to make a point. It's probably safe to say that all the '69 haze plants that sprouted are now dead. The Nevil's Haze is only one step removed from that and this makes the NH the best source of Haze I can find. There are a few interesting Hazes in th U.S. and I'm waiting impatiently for this years crop to come in, to see what's out there. The U.S. Purple Haze and hybrids might be the best we can do along the lines of a Haze backcross.

Outcrosses to the NH will not pose a problem, there are plenty of directions to go.
N.

 

[Ouchie]

Any time , I'm wondering about these things you used to test "female" male flowers, where would Joe Schmoe get something like this?

Hi Brock 1
Ethylene (fruiting hormone) is what I used to turn Haze C male into a female. I remember plucking calyxes of the plant to smoke it for the first time. An enlightening experience.
GA3 is what I used to get "females" to produce pollen.

Re vortex bottles, I have the first one going clockwise and the lower one anti clockwise.

The main reason I ask, I don't want to select males based on looks and smell alone, they can always be deceiving! I appreciate the time you take to help the little guys, seriously, you're the man! You have friends all over the world, you don't have to look very hard, don't let the man hold you down brother!

I always wondered what people did with their male breeding counterparts. Do they get the love and attention the pretty girls get? I doubt it, they're probably in a back corner like a red headed step child, lol. Do people "stress test" their males to see if they herm like they do their females? I ask myself this question when I look at any seed, I'm happy to say I actually have confidence it what I order from here, and I can't say that about anywhere or anyone else I've ever dealt with. I'd be proud to reverse some males, select the winner, and make some F2 crosses and inbreeding of some MNS strains. I promise you though, all my seeds will be scientifically categorized, labeled, and their lineage passed down WITH the seeds, as gifts to myself in the future, and maybe some lucky friends.

 

[Nevil]

I'm wondering about these things you used to test "female" male flowers, where would Joe Schmoe get something like this?

I've been looking lately, Bayer has a product called Ethrel. It should do the job.
N.

 

[Ouchie]

Thanks a ton, I'll get some if I can and post pics of some testing in the coming months!

After looking around for a few minutes, it's a little harder to find than I thought, lol! I'll keep looking though, sounds really interesting.

 

[brock1]

Any time , I'm wondering about these things you used to test "female" male flowers, where would Joe Schmoe get something like this?



The main reason I ask, I don't want to select males based on looks and smell alone, they can always be deceiving! I appreciate the time you take to help the little guys, seriously, you're the man! You have friends all over the world, you don't have to look very hard, don't let the man hold you down brother!

I always wondered what people did with their male breeding counterparts. Do they get the love and attention the pretty girls get? I doubt it, they're probably in a back corner like a red headed step child, lol. Do people "stress test" their males to see if they herm like they do their females? I ask myself this question when I look at any seed, I'm happy to say I actually have confidence it what I order from here, and I can't say that about anywhere or anyone else I've ever dealt with. I'd be proud to reverse some males, select the winner, and make some F2 crosses and inbreeding of some MNS strains. I promise you though, all my seeds will be scientifically categorized, labeled, and their lineage passed down WITH the seeds, as gifts to myself in the future, and maybe some lucky friends.

Ouchie to help you with ethylene i tried getting some after Nevil's post. only thing i could find with it in was anti freeze but didn't like the sound of using it. anyway i done a bit of research on it and most say fruit dosen't make enough to change the sex of plant's but i changed a shark shock male to female with 6 cherry tomato's and 1 apple in a bottle. with a pipe leading to a translucent bag over the plant. here it a pic of the plant after about 2 week. i killed the male after that pic as it was just to see if it would work for future male selection. thanks again Nevil for the info i realy appriciate it.