Cloning CRITICAL MASS

C

Chaz

New member
Been having a hard time cloning Critical Mass,. it seems that my success rate is about 5 in 30.
At the same time i will clone about 30 White Rhino and White Widow and 99% of them roots no problem
i've tried rock wool and peat pellets with the CM,. the Rock Wool seems to work the best but the cutting is almost dead by the time the roots start to show, (about 25 days to root) while the WW & WR takes about 7 TO 10 Days i find that once they show roots and i transplant to pro mix or #4 mix they shoot right up and out grow the WR & WW
The CM produces approx. 4 oz. per plant but the WR & WW collects powerdy mildew and will only produce approx.1 oz per plant,.. sometimes only 1/4 oz. per plant . So i want to fix this rooting problem as CM is by far the best producer
i use rooting gel and a humidity tray and dome,.. any suggestions
 
if your cloneing other strains fine then i dont know what to say to help

i clone CM with GREAT success and super fast too , 6 to 8 days

could you tell us step by step exactly how you go about cloneing
 
i take a 1 to 3" cutting,.. i have found that the newer shoots from the top the best,. less rigid and easer to root. dip in rooting powder or gel, i use both 1" rock wool cubes or peat pellets, ph water at 5.8 with a drop of super thrive, place in tray with clear dome under 2 F40 CW LAMPS

i'm going to cross a CM with a WW male and see if this helps
The CM is by far the best strain i've every grown, the yield is so much more than WW or WR
Sure hope that i can get a better success rate.

do your use a bubbler and air/stone to get roots in 6-8 days?
 
i havent used a bubbler for c/m

i ph my water for wetting my cubes at 6 to 6.5 im not all that exact when it comes to ph , but never lower then 6

and i never use super thrive ect ect

do you make your cut at an angle ? do you make small shallow slices/cuts up to about a half inch from the bottom ? do you lightly scrape the bottom half inch ?

sounds like your missing some important steps

try the things ive mentioned and let me/us know how you do
 
b0b_b1tch1n said:
i havent used a bubbler for c/m

i ph my water for wetting my cubes at 6 to 6.5 im not all that exact when it comes to ph , but never lower then 6

and i never use super thrive ect ect

do you make your cut at an angle ? do you make small shallow slices/cuts up to about a half inch from the bottom ? do you lightly scrape the bottom half inch ?

sounds like your missing some important steps

try the things ive mentioned and let me/us know how you do
Click to expand...

That's some mighty fine advice there, b0b...I'd listen to him if I were you, Chaz...;)

If what you're doing works for the other clones of your other strains, then there's no need to change your regimen with them...as for the CM, you might want to change it up...almost dead leads me to believe you leave your clones wet much of the time...let the CM dry out...I let my clones go bone dry and sometimes even wilt a bit...I know that sounds scary, but never underestimate this plant...those wilted clones perk right back up in a matter of minutes, with or without roots...too wet is often the problem with clones...some strains deal with it better than others...sounds like you've got yourself a pheno who's quite the character...since she explodes once rooted, I believe once dialed in she will root even faster...one thing I do to try to increase or sustain vigor in my clones is leave a plant untopped and let it really get going...trim all lower branches and let her take off, then take her tip...clone from the most vigorous branches...select the clones that root the fastest and discard the others...keep selecting clones that root faster than others...try to make it a habit...your clones will love you...you will love your clones...I promise...when you do clone that one vigorous girl, take a big juicy cut (~5")...work separately with the CM and you will figure her out...that's my advice...jay:)
 
CM

Thanks for the advise bOb and jay. i will try it all.
will let you know how it turns out. thanks !
 
jaybutta said:
work separately with the CM and you will figure her out...that's my advice...jay:)
Click to expand...

great advice , i use separate domes for different strains and i write on paper the order they are in , like if i used 4 mother CM id draw a pic , clone 1 , 2 , 3 ect ect , then when potting the rooted clones id again label them , then once flowered out id know what mom was the keeper

but yes , what jay said , work separately with the CM

just today i wilted some CM clones bad , i took the top off the dome for too long , 3 to 4 hours , the clones were in the dome for a day and a half and had no wilt at all ,,,, untill they got too much air movement

i misted the inside of the dome top with water and put it back on , ill let you know tomorow how they responded

im mentioning this because maybe this is your issue with cm dieing

i had some very very poor fem ww seeds , the plants were no better then hemp , but i cloned them like a mad man without a dome and none wilted , so what im saying is some strains can survive common mistakes and some cant

good luck , and remember , practice makes perfect ;)
 
CM

Just had the same problem,..left the dome off for too long,.. Cm started to wilt. The temp. was too hot, over 80f so i took the lid off hopeing to cool it to 75f. What temp do you find best to root? 75f or less?

The first picture looks like a White Rhino,. is this correct?
 
Chaz said:
Just had the same problem,..left the dome off for too long,.. Cm started to wilt. The temp. was too hot, over 80f so i took the lid off hopeing to cool it to 75f. What temp do you find best to root? 75f or less?

The first picture looks like a White Rhino,. is this correct?
Click to expand...

Consistent temp/humidity works best IME...I've rooted clones in hot & cold temps...:eek:

All pics are of a new strain called The Cure...it is Afghan Skunk x (NL5HzA[2] x SkunkHzC)...since CM is an Afghan Skunk as well, I felt it was appropriate...jay:)

ps...I used to freak out at the sight of wilted clones...now I do it on purpose to see how long they can go without water...;)

pps...I don't remove the dome for any long length of time for at least a week after taking my cuts...I either hook up the air pump set to low and run two tubes in there, or I remove the lid once or twice a day, replace the air---I either blow on them or use the lid of the dome to waft air across them---and put the top back on...once they have rooted only then does the top come off, and not for that long...I'd rather vent the hood than take it off completely...I use a heating mat to keep the clones warm and to keep the environment consistent...if humidity is too low, the heatmat gets plugged in...if the room gets too hot, the heatmat gets unplugged...if the dome gets too humid (dripping wet) then it must be dried...a stagnant wet environment will kill clones very quickly...I do EVERYTHING in my power to keep the clones in as stable an environment as possible until they have rooted, at which point I believe they are ready to be "hardened off"...but even that, in my book, takes another week or so depending on the cut...I think that's about it...as you can see, I've devoted much of my time to the art of cloning...:o
 
now that jay is here to help i dont think there is much more that we can say
its pretty much covered now

try some new clones and let us know how it goes
if your in summer months DONT use a heat pad , dont go out of your way to add heat and humidity or your just going to cause MUSH !!!!



P.S. all my clones that wilted are now doing fine , 3 of them are showing a bit of leaf damage , but thats all ,,, as jay said , dont uncover them for long (if at all)
 
Last edited:
I do all my cloning outdoors in the woods and it would make some of the so called marijuana scientists shake their heads and say that will never work but I get about 90%.I take my scissors out to the plot with me and some wet paper towels.I do take the cut on an angle but i just use my scissors no razor blades and i never cut it again.Anyway,i wrap the cuts in the wet paper towel and bring them to my cloning spot which is always in a good canopy of trees where the only thing the cuttings get is filtered sunlight.I use rapid rooter or oasis cubes and dip-n-grow I usually have the rooters soaking in a 5 gallon bucket of water I have just ran out of the spicket.I dip the cutting in the rooting solution,pull a cube out of the 5 gallon bucket and squeeze the excess water out.I then push the cutting stem down til i feel it go into the bottom of the cube a little bit and place that cube in a tray.i repeat this process until I am done and I do not use a dome.I do not water them at all for 3 days and on the 4th day I start wetting the cube every other day or everyday if the temps are high and the cubes have dried out(if it makes you feel better you can take a spray bottle and mist the leaves every day or so but it is not necessary).the cuttings will wilt and look dead for a few days but after about 6 days you will notice that they are still green and actually starting to perk back up.I start picking the cubes up after about 9 days and look for white roots coming thru the cube.When I see roots coming thru the cubes almost all the way around I put them in 3" pots in soil and water them good and at this time place them in full sun but not before.I have to remind myself sometimes that this is a weed we are growing and it will damn near grow on concrete if we dont over baby it or over do anything with it.I rooted every cutting I took this year just like that except for the ones that I broke the stems on myself handling them to rough and trying to pull dead leaves off that I should have clipped off to start with.
 
Have you considered either buying or making your own fogponics rooter? the commercial ones are kinda expensive but one can be made at home with inexpensive materials for way under 50 bucks and you WILL have roots and the cutting will not die or wilt or wither i know this because i made one for my self very cheaply with 100% rooting success the tricky part is sometimes after the clones have rooted and are taken out of the fog they tend to dry out but in my case i use no rock wool or medium to root the clones in only darkness for the roots to grow in is required and rooting is acheived in about 10 days or less although i usualy leave them in for 2 weeks to get some good roots going. the only problem in my experiance with this method is upon removing the clones from the fog i would recomend placing the new rooted cuttings in a bubbler system also cheaply made until the initial shock of moving them is over..after i take the clones from the fog i use only net pots and hydroton to transplant into and it really works well as long as you are carefull of the roots when trans planting the lack of rockwool prevents root and stem rot before the cutting gets a chance to start growing this method works well for even the hardest to clone strains..the fog can be produced with a very cheap fogger sold on ebay for around 10 bucks and maybe cheaper by now my setup uses a fog can with a hose and very small fan such as a proccessor fan to push the fog into the cloning tray very gently every 45 min for about 15 min it really works great and is super cheap to build...maybe give it a try it does work very well...if you need a hand please dont hesitate to pm me
 
The Sage of the south said:
I do all my cloning outdoors in the woods and it would make some of the so called marijuana scientists shake their heads and say that will never work but I get about 90%.I take my scissors out to the plot with me and some wet paper towels.I do take the cut on an angle but i just use my scissors no razor blades and i never cut it again.Anyway,i wrap the cuts in the wet paper towel and bring them to my cloning spot which is always in a good canopy of trees where the only thing the cuttings get is filtered sunlight.I use rapid rooter or oasis cubes and dip-n-grow I usually have the rooters soaking in a 5 gallon bucket of water I have just ran out of the spicket.I dip the cutting in the rooting solution,pull a cube out of the 5 gallon bucket and squeeze the excess water out.I then push the cutting stem down til i feel it go into the bottom of the cube a little bit and place that cube in a tray.i repeat this process until I am done and I do not use a dome.I do not water them at all for 3 days and on the 4th day I start wetting the cube every other day or everyday if the temps are high and the cubes have dried out(if it makes you feel better you can take a spray bottle and mist the leaves every day or so but it is not necessary).the cuttings will wilt and look dead for a few days but after about 6 days you will notice that they are still green and actually starting to perk back up.I start picking the cubes up after about 9 days and look for white roots coming thru the cube.When I see roots coming thru the cubes almost all the way around I put them in 3" pots in soil and water them good and at this time place them in full sun but not before.I have to remind myself sometimes that this is a weed we are growing and it will damn near grow on concrete if we dont over baby it or over do anything with it.I rooted every cutting I took this year just like that except for the ones that I broke the stems on myself handling them to rough and trying to pull dead leaves off that I should have clipped off to start with.
Click to expand...


I'll have to try your method, Thanks for sharing bro..
 
auxins.

Did I mis-read this? Do you take clones from the TOP of the plant?
I have and made it work, but taking clones from new growth on the BOTTOM is where I succeed. Reason being - it's the newest part of the plant and is already growing the fastest. Just grab them after the branch has three sites/offshoots/joints on it - and don't loom back! A lot of folks trim that off the plant anyways so that they might concentrate on the top growth.

Unless you hang naked lights....

z
 
I couldn't find anywhere if you cut your clones under a node? You'll want to have one node in your medium since that's where the most root hormones are.

If you take a small cut from the top of the plant which don't have a node, only the top shoot, it will be a lot harder to root than a clone with a node buried in the ground.

Also, never make the cut at an angle.

The Sage of the south: Do you have high humidity where you live? In a canopy there always (well...) is anyway. Your method wont work if the humidity isn't high enough. (Obviously, but maybe not everyone knows that and it would be a shame if someone lost all their clones due to too low levels of moist in the air.)


But as you all know, sometimes the plants doesn't know what we know and they root anyhow...
 
Panacea said:
Also, never make the cut at an angle.

...
Click to expand...

okay your going to have to explain this , personally i think thats a crazy statement and i ALWAYS make my cuts at an angle , like to say 100% success rate but ocationally 1 will die (like 1 out of 500) , so i get 99% success

here is something i found posted a long time ago and had saved ,,,,,,,,

Cloning:
1. Select a branch or stem that has at least 2 or 3 sets of leaves.
2. Locate a spot on the branch between, or next to, a set of leaf nodes where your cut will be made (leaf nodes are where the branches come out of the stem). Leave at least one set of nodes above the cut.
3. Make a clean, neat, 45 degree slice with a razor blade or knife. It is important that you do not damage the branch while handling.
4. Remove the lower 1 or 2 sets of branches (stems and leaves), leaving the upper sets of leaves to be placed above the growing medium line. Trim any flowers or buds that remain.
5. To prevent an air bubble (embolism) from lodging in the stem where the cut is, immediately dip the base of the cutting into a quality cloning gel, like Clonex or Rootech. Place cutting into your growing medium.
6. Keep your growing medium moist and warm with bottom heat at all times for best results. Never let your growing medium dry out.
7. Check your growing medium and transfer cuttings once roots appear or a strong root ball is established.
Additional Tips for Cloning:
1. pH balance your medium between 5.5 and 6.2.
2. Healthy and actively growing plants provide the best choice of clones.
3. Be sure to sterilize your growing medium and any tools needed to do the job, i.e. the scalpel.
4. Keep the bottom heat around 75*-85*F and the ambient greenhouse/indoor temperature at 70*F.
5. Keep your RH high by using a humidity dome. This will help root development by allowing the plant to actively transpire without drying out during the rooting phase.
6. Remove the growth tip and excessive foliage to reduce water loss through transpiration.
7. Fluorescents are best for seed germination and rooting cuttings. HIDs can be used, but make sure the light is raised high above the humidity dome to keep the seedlings and cuttings from drying out or burning.
8. Don’t over water your cuttings.
 
Last edited:
b0b_b1tch1n said:
okay your going to have to explain this , personally i think thats a crazy statement and i ALWAYS make my cuts at an angle , like to say 100% success rate but ocationally 1 will die (like 1 out of 500) , so i get 99% success
Click to expand...

Sure thing, can you explain why to cut at an angle later? ;)

Anyhow, you can cut at an angle, use scissors or even rip the clone of by hand force, if you do everything else right they probably will root anyway.

The clone will be able to drink more water for a longer time if you cut it at an angle. That's why the florists do it that way. And that's probably why so many do it to clones also.
You expose more of the (I don't know the english word for) "pipes that transports water and nutrients withing the plant". However, this is not the way to go to get faster rooting. Professional growers (for commercial plants I mean) call it "Florist cut" and themselves always cut it straight. I suppose the risk for the clone to rot is bigger since it's weakened at the thinnest part of the cut. Also, it might take longer for it to root since it so easily gets the water it need anyway...

But, as you said. Cannabis will most often clone anyway. But to make the cut at an angle is not the right way to do it. At least not in theory. ;)
 
not trying to be rude so ill say sorry first ,,,

i honestly believe you have no idea of what your talking about
none of what you said makes sence to me and ive never ever heard , read , or seen any of what you said anywhere

google cloneing , from the tons and tons of results you will find EVERY post says cut at an angle

for one it gives you more surface to produce roots and 2 (VERY IMPORTANT) the plant heals better at the spot it was cut

Professional growers (for commercial plants I mean) --- i know quite a few and they ALL cut at an angle , im talking guys who do thousands of plants at a time and hire employes , some are legal and some arent

once again i have NEVER in all my years heard of cutting a straight cut , my mother is a greenhouse manager and has been my entire life , she used to grow in her younger years and even taught me how to cut clones at around age 10 , im 39 now ,,,, how many years have you been cutting clones Panacea ?

please Panacea do a simple google search and do some reading , it seems you have lots to learn

peace :cool:
 
It is good to cut at an angle , & it is also good to make a second cut under water. Leave it under water for about five minutes, and then dip it & put it in your medium.


to keep air bubbles out.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top