The True Origins of Haze- BigHerb's Article

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so its a good chance haze genetics came from africa, the usa probably brought hemp to columbia in the 30's.;)

i was wondering if they are using any columbians in the grail, we know they've got an african.
 
Namaskar said:
I think some of you need an anger management, because it is a pity to the strain itself.Back to the topic then, if the seeds brought by Sam to Holland contained Thai genes, big question to me is what do we know about the Thai genes, especially the origin of the Thai strain.

There is a lot of talk about Dutch lines, but those lines originated abroad mainly in the US and was perfected here in Holland.Before the 60s the Dutch were already growing drug cannabis in the 1920-1930s on Java for the pharmacies in Holland, so is there not a possibility that the Thai grown in the 60s was actually originated from Java?

Namaste :)
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Thanks for keepin interest an adding some useful insights



This is what has my interest it is been spoke of briefly by Sams below

I gave the Thai and S Indian Kerala genetics to the Haze Bros to use and they did. They never did add any Ceylon (Sri Lanka) genetics and I am glad because the herb in Ceylon is crap. I lived and traveled in Ceylon several times, and spent time hunting local genetics. All the local sadhu smokers wanted S Indian ganja because it was so much better, they all complained about the lack of good Ceylon herb, and loved to smoke Kerala or Indian/Afghani hash. They all said that Kerala weed was much better then Ceylon weed, they should know.

-SamS
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The quote above sepaks about the south indian keralan but i dont recall any more specific details on it although ive asked




"
All of the S Indian and Thai crosses were toward the end of Haze production. Not only males were used for crosses. The 3 year timeline was just someones dream , Haze was grown for over 10years by the haze bros , Sacred seeds tried to stabilize Haze with mixed results.The quality dropped considerably.The problem is that the best Hazes were F1s Hybrids , and Haze stabilization can not be done without a loss of vigor.
Also I never chose males for hybrids, you do not know how good they are or their ability to contribute to a new hybrid. I use haze females , and I do have a few Haze males that I selected from hundreds of males , after testing their progeny first. But it is a lot of work and beyond most closet breeders. The progenys growouts involved thousands of plants. Just to determine the best haze male to use for Hybrids"
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You do not have first hand anything as none of the people at MNSeeds were even around when I showed Neville his first Original Haze, he had never seen it before, he told me so, it was in 84, and Shantibaba was not even in Holland. I like Shantibaba and he just does not know the facts because he was not here, and/or he has been misled by others.
As for anyone (if I got this right) implying that Original Haze clones from 1969 are used, and alive, that is plain insane, there are no Cannabis clones from 1969, that is for sure. But maybe he meant seeds from 1969? And not grown until the 80's? To be honest I do not know, except the only Original Haze seeds sold prior to the 80's were mine, That I made after 1976. One way or another something is not correct about the 1969 date, and that is what you are going on. As far as I know all Nevilles work with Haze was from Original Haze he got from me, that's what he told me anyway, back in the 80's.

-SamS
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But the best Original Haze plants were before I saw clones a few years later
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These post above in my opinion show that Sams is admitting that the thai an S.indian were hs additions to save the line an show its impossible any stock from 69 or any years of th early 70's .

Remember end of haze production 81

Best plants were before he saw Clones a few years later ,he smoke Ohaze in 71 a few years is more than 2

I think ive more than made my point why i believe its impossible that Nevil recieved 69 haze stock


1luvbigherb
 
BucketBong said:
Are you going to be a man and admit you didnt reply to my pms GangaBoy? How about acting like a man mate ?
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I did answer your PM so don't lie. Your Pm was filled with foul language. How do you suggest I prove it? I don't want to post it in BigHerb's thread as your PM was very abusive. Shall I post it in your thread instead, just to prove that I'm not a liar?

Peace
GM1
 
ganja man1 said:
I did answer your PM so don't lie. Your Pm was filled with foul language. How do you suggest I prove it? I don't want to post it in BigHerb's thread as your PM was very abusive. Shall I post it in your thread instead, just to prove that I'm not a liar?

Peace
GM1
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I just spoke with you asking to stay on topic an be cool we've spoke on this in the past

whats up ?

If you want to post the pm dont do it here please ,But i can almost guarantee you wont be suspended if you do
 
BucketBong said:
Post the second one you failed to reply to Ganga boy lmao You poisonous bullshitting little toe rag. You DIDNT answer or reply to it . You can spin this anyway you like gangaboy including threatening to post a pm in the main ( not allowed laddie ) but the truth remains. I asked TWICE you in pm to remove your post on my strain base thread. You didnt even reply . End of the story. Spin away mate .
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Ahhh, so you admit that I replied to the first one. Yes? the one filled with foul language. Yes?

BucketBong you are the trouble maker and I will not play your games by responding to you any longer, for the sake of peace. You and I will never get along.

OK I rest my case and this will be the last post I make in this anti-Hempy filled thread.

Peace
GM1
 
so youre saying that there wouldnt be a single possibility for a mother and fathr to xist in the 80s?

im sure it is....
 
bigherb said:
Marijuana arrived in Colombia thanks to the aid of the USA in 1930.

while there may be some truth in that whole post ,the highlighted print above is in my opinion untrue

check this link below

Afro-Colombian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Its been discussed before that the african slaves has brought cannabis seeds with them to colombia

1luvbigherb
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The Dutch were 1 of the inventors of slavery like the word apartheid used in South-Africa.There is no record at all that the Africans were already using or growing Cannabis as a drug in that time.The Spanish took hemp to the New World like what the Dutch did to North America, but hemp is not marijuana, unless it was Kentucky hemp.:D The British re-discovered Cannabis as a drug in the 19th century in India.Indian contract workers brought the herb to Africa but that was later on.

IMO some of the American pharmaceutical companies like Eli Lilly, Parke Davis were responsible for the introduction of the drug cannabis strains in Colombia.

Zamalito mentioned Afghan farmers and genetics being introduced to Latin America in the 40s
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Namaste :)
 
according to "the emperor wears no clothes"

cannabis has bee prevalent in north america in colonial times.

hemp at least. cannabis sativa was obtained by the spanish and introduced to mesoamerica in the 1500s i believe.

this is a really good progression of the topic. i wonder where the "cradle" of cannabis is, as africa is believed to be the "cradle" of human civilization.

looks like we got some smokin' to do fellas... :)
 
GM1 came into this forum trolling Elmer bud, then moved on to various members trashing there threads one by one just like a little kid.
Then given a second chance by most members and a fresh start... his new thread was locked due to being of no value so he starts trolling again ... GM1 please for all the members that want to read this thread with OUT pages of dribble can you stop the troll posts and taunts.
 
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Anyone know if the Dutch East India company ever grew any cannabis in Indonesia ?
 
Pleaseeeeee......You guys take it somewhere else, even BH has ask that and it is his thread.

Namaskar.....Funny u should mention African's as Nev and I were just starting to think that maybe Cannabis originated from that area, no concrete evidence, but after growing Kariba some things are starting to look and smell very similar to other strains.
Good input by the way.
 
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Kangativa said:
Pleaseeeeee......You guys take it somewhere else, even BH has ask that and it is his thread.

Namaskar.....Funny u should mention African's as Nev and I were just starting to think that maybe Cannabis originated from that area, no concrete evidence, but after growing Kariba some things are starting to look and smell very similar to other strains.
Good input by the way.
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Id thought that also a ways back kanga ,
but apparently the evidence isnt there to support the theory ,
imho it seems more likely it was spread through south east asia and beyond ..
i love african sativas too man , really glad you guys have found something you like also ...
origins huh , funny how much we are hung up on them ... :D
 
bigherb said:
If you want to post the pm dont do it here please ,But i can almost guarantee you wont be suspended if you do
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:D:D sorry man, i dont even like the guy myself much but i cannot allow him to post up a pm, ganjaman if you do you will certainly be banned, place would be better off without him here i agree but that is not the way to get rid of him, dont post up that or any pm anywhere on this forum or you will be banned ganjaman, its called a pm for a reason.
 
the chinese were the first culture to document its use. 5000 yeas ago.

why china first and not egypt? that also leads into a different region. ughhhhh. hahaha.
 
So far as i know there are no records about cultivation of Cannabis by the VOC, unless this is hidden.The Dutch were in the beginning of the 20th century the biggest producer of cocaine (coca cultivated on Java), amphetamine till 1942, but that is another story.India was in the 19th century well known for their Cannabis varieties as drug.

A British Study of Cannabis (Circa 1910 AD)



Namaste :)
 
Perhaps the Purple haze didn't had the purple traits from Punto rojo, but perhaps from the Red Thai

Red Thai

Genetics: Pure Southeast Asian Ganja Plant
Latitude: 15°N
Regional Maturation: late December to early February
Height: 4m or more
Aroma: rich and 'leathery' like good tobacco, but nicer!
Characteristics: long red pistils on dark calyxes, big yields, great 'Thai' flavour
Grow Type: Outdoors or greenhouse

This is a big ganja strain grown in Northeast Thailand ('Isaan') and Lao.

Buds are typically a deep reddish-brown to mauve-brown and have unusual long red pistils ('hairs'). Smoke is particularly smooth and rich. The precise aroma is impossible to describe: something like leathery pipe tobacco, with hints of chocolate, coffee and musk.

These are large plants, capable of going over 4 metres outdoors. A superior plant to the 'Mekong', though unfortunately only limited stock is available at present.

The high is very euphoric and long-lasting. It is possible this 'Red Thai' line is related to a prized '70s Lao/Isaan strain that was grown in this region and known to smokers as 'Sa Daeng' or 'Red Ganja'.
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Namaste :)
 
Valvilov (sp?) proposed the origins in Asia in the 1920s

You can follow the the plant a bit with the names as well

Bhang in india. Bango or bongo i think was the name the africians gave it. The word then morphed into banjo.

Hillig also recently wrote that paper and he proposes that all plants from te indian Ocean area are the same geneticly compared to tje european sativa
 
You do not have first hand anything as none of the people at MNSeeds were even around when I showed Neville his first Original Haze, he had never seen it before, he told me so, it was in 84, and Shantibaba was not even in Holland. I like Shantibaba and he just does not know the facts because he was not here, and/or he has been misled by others.
As for anyone (if I got this right) implying that Original Haze clones from 1969 are used, and alive, that is plain insane, there are no Cannabis clones from 1969, that is for sure. But maybe he meant seeds from 1969? And not grown until the 80's? To be honest I do not know, except the only Original Haze seeds sold prior to the 80's were mine, That I made after 1976. One way or another something is not correct about the 1969 date, and that is what you are going on. As far as I know all Nevilles work with Haze was from Original Haze he got from me, that's what he told me anyway, back in the 80's.

-SamS
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Sam is almost admitting the truth here.

Sam sold Nevil a few bags of seeds, one labelled 69, one labelled 68, one labelled 70, one labelled 67, 68, 69. Nevil started with the oldest ones and only one plant grew from them. He got 5 to grow from the 69 bag and those are where he took the parentals he did all his Haze work with.

So why is bigherb ignoring this key fact? Sam here admits it is possible that Nevil had seeds from 69. Bigherb is just ignoring this to support his crackpot theory.

Sam didn't lie to Nevil about his seeds, he told a lot of lies but the seeds he sold were as he said and the 69 Haze seeds were bloody good seeds.

Why would Nevil lie about the dates on the bags? What difference did it make to him if the seeds were from 69 or 76? All he cared about was the genes, the age was irrelevant.

What bigherb has written about isn't the origins of Haze, it's about the work that Sam did with Haze in 71-76. Sam admitted he didn't smoke Haze until 71 so that proves he didn't make the seeds he sold to Nevil.

Why would Sam mention that it was possible that seeds from 69 and grown in the 80s were part of the equation?

Sam didn't create Haze, he worked with it in the early 70s and outcrossed it to Thai and South Indian, he lived next door to the Haze Bros and those guys grew Haze and made posters and sold their crop in fancy wooden boxes for 500 an elbow with a free poster, but they didn't breed Haze, they just grew it.

bigherb's story is a crock of shit, whoever bred Haze did it in the 60s. Haze was derived from a Thai, crossed to something else to make it finish in Cali, no doubt the Thai arrived there sometime after 65 when the Marines went to 'Nam, probably the Thai was grown in 66 for the first time and crossed to something that year, making 67 the earliest Haze was around. That fits with 67 as being the first date on the bags Nevil got from Sam.

So what bigherb has written about is the activities of Sam in the early 70s, not the origins of Haze which is in the 60s and was bred by someone else.

Why has Sam got away with his lies for so long? I think the obvious answer is the guys who did the real work got busted. Probably they all got busted and Sam was the only one who survived to tell tales. That's why he turns up in Amsterdam with his DEA handler, Michael Rich in tow.

As for Punto Rojo, it's a modern variety, a 'Krippi' type, short for Kryptonite, bred in Colombia, not even pure Colombian, it's a hybrid from the local types and seeds they bought in Holland. In the 60s Colombia wasn't exporting much Cannabis, that began in the 70s, and most of it went to the East Coast, NYC mostly, there is a lot of documentation about this.

All in all, Sam and Nevil both say seeds from 69, grown in the 80s and that just destroys bigherb's whole theory.
 
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