Search for Punto Rojo

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Most of us who love haze and have a passion for the legendary strains of yore know that Punto Rojo has been claimed to be the archetype of haze. I'm starting this thread to document my search for Punto Rojo, and as a place where other MNS members can talk about their experiences with this strain, or with Colombian genetics in general.

First a brief summary about current sources I know of where Punto Rojo seeds can be obtained: none exist.

Next, some info on where PR seeds could be found in the past:

  • Bagseed from the 1960's and early-mid 1970s. See origins of haze. Our own Big Sur is the only person I know who has PR seeds from ancient bagseed, and I don't think he's giving those away. Perhaps there is some old PR seed in a BOEL seed stash somewhere on the west coast or Hawaii. We'll probably never know.
  • The Brazillian Seed Co used to sell PR and other fine Colombian genetics, and their offerings are discussed in this MNS thread. I believe the BSC is no more but maybe some people know some people who grew out their PR and made F2s.
  • Charlie Garcia / Cannabiogen made PR seeds available in the 2012 timeframe I believe but they are long gone and closely held now. Pity that all this "preservation" work culminated with only one batch of seeds being released, from what I can tell. I do believe Charlie is spending time in Colombia these days and I hope he is growing and improving the PR line., and that he will make more seeds available some day soon.
  • Unfortunately nothing available from MNS, as Shanti has ceded the sativa market to the likes of Ace and CBG.

I was fortunate enough to trade for some Punto Rojo x Mangobiche F1 seeds with a very generous and thoughtful MNS member. He grew them from CBG stock, and made his own cross. He is welcome to identify himself but he may choose not to. I even obtained some of his perfectly cured Colombian bud. While not the most potent weed, the high and flavor are wonderful and I save it for special occasions. It has that peppery, earthy, spicy smell that brings me right back to the 1970s. It's truly sublime cannabis.

I planted all 8 seeds as soon as I received them, which was about 6 weeks ago. I got 100% germination and they spent their first month in my veg cabinet under LED shoplights. I almost killed them a couple weeks ago when I brought them out in the sun in hot weather and didn't think to harden them up gradually. The lower fan leaves got burned but I realized my error before it was too late and they're back on track, now fully accustomed to the intensity of Sol. My plan is to veg and flower these outside, take cuttings in mid August, and flower rooted clones in September. No way I can finish these here at 42N without a greenhouse, but I expect to collect pollen from the males. Assuming a 16 week flower cycle, I'll be harvesting around New Year, which means they should be properly cured by May or June 2019. Damn, but that's a long time!

So here are my 8 little Colombians, #1-#4 front row, #5-#8 middle row, and four Grail Widow F2s that will join the party on the back row. They already have a piney smell on the stem rub. Loving the skinny leaves!

 
Last edited:

PlantManBee

Active member
Nice! I got to sample some of the lumbo from I'd bet the same MNS regular, and I really love it too. it is less potent than most modern strains but the high is very nice, maybe even sublime.

Good luck with the current work. :)
 

Broseidon

New member
Looks nice.

My research into the strain also lead me to Cannabiogen stock. Would have suggested looking there as well. They are now merged with Ace Seeds, so don't know if anything went downhill since then but before they were by all accounts reputable and also had good price structure. Was close to get some packs from them as well.
 

Big Sur

Member
It is true that I do not give seeds away. I #trade# seeds though. I also got the new cross of Punto Rojo x Mangobitche seeds in trade recently, along with the Colombian red hair weed. It smokes EXACLTLY like a lot of Colombian weed back in the day. Short stimulating high, typical of sativa. We had to keep smoking joints to stay stoned all day. So others like myself out there have Punto Rojo genetics. Punto Rojo was a common strain grown in Big Sur and Central California in the late 1970s as there was a LOT of local grown red hair weed going around then. So likely I have even more Runto Rojo genetics in early heirloom seeds from the Big Sur/Carmel Valley area.

Some articles that I have read online falsely claim that early breeders went for red hairs for potency rather than fat calyxes, but that was simply not the case. It was simply a matter of what genetics we had available from bag weed seed back then. With the exception of Thai and Cambo Red, most 'weed' products from Asia came in the form of hashish, and not colas or tops. So we did not have seeds from Lebanon, Afghanistan, Nepal, Pakistan or Morocco unless someone purposely brought seeds back from trips to those places. What was all the rage then in local grown weed were purple strains and skunk. I bought and smoked up a shit load of Big Sur red hair weed myself. Cheap as chips, $60-$80 an oz. Second generation Mexican and/or Colombian grown semi-seedless from bag seed. There was a lot of that grown in the Santa Cruz mountain area as well as skunk and early purple bud. Early Haze genetics? Likely.
 

Big Sur

Member
Real Punto Rojo is trippy psychedelic weed and could be racy or speedy. As opposed to the far more common Punta Roja, or Colombian Red, which was lowland Colombian typically bricked green and fermented en route, and sold as "Colombian Gold" in the states. That was narcotic, and put you under the table pretty fast. I do not know if it was naturally high in CBN, or it was old weed by the time it got here and thus THC had time to convert to CBN (about 10% of THC is converted into CBN the first year in harvested weed).

As for what would become Haze, that is anyone's guess. More likely that was a cross of Colombian Gold x Mexican (IMO, 1975 Guerrero which was the most potent Mexican I have smoked to date). Legend is that it was then re-crossed with another Colombian. Maybe Punto Rojo, or maybe Colombian Black (wacky weed). More legends say that Haze was then crossed with a Ganja (also available in NorCal in 1975) and/or Thai. The skinny Thai sticks that were common in the 1970s. Keep in mind that Colombians mature REALLY Late (as does Kerala), and for that reason I think it is far more likely that original Haze had Mexican dominant genetics. But also IMO and experience living there from 1966 to 1986, Haze was a myth and never around in the late 1960s as claimed. Likely it was developed in the mid to late 1970s, and exported to Holland in the 1980s. So it could really be any number of genetic crosses. We had shit-loads of Thai, Colombian and Mexican weed there then. And lesser amounts of Ganja, Jamaican, African and other SE Asian weed.

More interesting Colombian genetics were available though. Particularly gold. My last planting of Santa Marta 'lombo gold (from 1977 bag seed) produced golden leaf plants and gold-green tops. They started blooming in mid October. Really late genetics, but really good weed. Likely the mother of NorCal skunkweed. I know the guy in Europe that developed what is sold at Colombian Gold '72 I think it is called. It is a back cross though. Lots of seed companies have what they call 'lombo gold. Colombian Black is also a good strain, and still available in the PNW as a cut. So called Whacky Weed, it will make you laugh and roll on the ground, and you will be high as a kite smoking that stuff. Green Gauge had some black seeds for sale. There is also Colombian green, from the west coast. What Franco of GHS called Limon Verde. They never called it Limon Verde, but it was green and good weed. Likely it is related to Runto Rojo (red point). Then there is Mangobiche. The Mango Bitch. I think Cannabiogen has seeds of that? Bummer if they merged with Ace. *shrug* I also have some Panama red (likely related to lowland Punta Roja), and some Punto Creepy and Santa Miguelito from Costa Rica that I traded for recently. I have not grow these yet. Never enough time or space. I can grow 22 plants with my current grow permits here, 10 of which can be mature and flowering. This year I am finishing off my Durban testing and breeding, and a run of Maui. I am also starting a skunk run and Vietnam Black run for the winter/spring. I may do a Colombian run next year of gold and green.
 
Last edited:

CannaFish

Active member
Looks nice.

My research into the strain also lead me to Cannabiogen stock. Would have suggested looking there as well. They are now merged with Ace Seeds, so don't know if anything went downhill since then but before they were by all accounts reputable and also had good price structure. Was close to get some packs from them as well.
I don't believe CBG merged with ACE. Maybe you are thinking that because ACE's site does sell CBG seeds. Cannabiogen's site is still up and running, selling Durban, Mangobiche, Ghana...

Charlie Garcia is one of my favorites in the game. I am grateful for the Colombian seeds he puts out there. He actually sells somewhat pure lines compared to others that only sell hybrids.

From what I've read from Charlie, punto rojo and mangobiche aren't all that different and possibly come from a common origin. I liked the idea of chucking an all colombian-all sativa hybrid. IDK if it added vigor, but the punto rojo cut down on the mangobiche's flowering time and added a spicy black pepper aroma to the mango. I do haves hopes to make pure punto rojo seeds with the originals I have left.

BigSur - Please bring out the GOLD... and the Mexicans... and the skinny Thais! ¡Viva La Sativa!

Marcus - best of luck with these. I think my favorite plant was the purple one that I called big spicy. Nice christmas tree structure and buds for days. Earliest finisher. Long velvety colas with medium-large purple tinted bracts that have a spicy perfume mango aroma and a clear happy buzz with a mellow head. It probably looked closest to your plant #3 early one. Grail Widow back right is a BEAST. Stud#1 is looking solid. #6 has that long middle leaflet looking extra wicked. That would be cool if you are able to make F2s. Honestly I'm not sure why I didn't make PuntoBiche F2s:confused: because I did use the colombian pollen on the GuerreroBerry:confused:

Big spicy on bottom and longest flowering one on top


"The clear light of science teaches us that we must be our own saviors, if we are to be found worth saving."
— Luther Burbank
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Here are my Punto Rojo x Mangobiche plants at 8 weeks from seed, now fully acclimated to the New England summer sun and humidity. An imposter has been identified and will be culled. Makes me wonder if it's an Indica expression hidden in the CBG PR/MB genes, or if the seed mother was hit by some stray Dutch pollen. Otherwise nice thin-leaf sativa expressions. No preflowers yet. I want to take 2-3 cuts per plant in another 2 weeks, and these plants aren't making that easy, with one main shoot and very little branching at this stage. As much as I hate the idea of ruining their good looks, I may top them to give me a better shot at multiple cuts in a couple more weeks. If I top them I'll put the cuts under 12/12 as they root. Hopefully they don't take too long to sex at this stage of the summer, as the days are getting shorter.

Getting some really interesting stem rub smells...great fresh non-stinky smells. PRM1 smells floral, #6 and #7 have the piniest smell, and #8 smells distinctly of mango. Interesting to see if the piney smelling plants lean toward punto rojo while I would expect #8 to lean mangobiche.

PRM #1-4 below.




PRM #5-8 below.

 
Last edited:

59lespaul

Member
I remember all those old sativas well. Going back to 67. Grew my first mex bagseed in 71. I was 13. Almost all of it I remember grew leaves with 13 fingers, and in my neck of the wood, and growing inexperience, never finished.
But by 75 I had t figured out.
In 71 where I was you could get mex for $140lb.$20oz retail. Half seeds.
How would you like to buy 1/8th of a pound of pure Punta Rojo, Oaxacan, Michoacán for $140.:D $70 for seeds, and $70 worth of weed broken down.

And for a suggestion to look at, and you may already know.

You Know Who has 2 Sativa Dominant Punta Rojo crosses, and the Male is the Punta Rojo. Also had Indica crosses.

He also has 2 sativa dom 79 Columbian Gold crosses. Also has Indica crosses

The Columbian Gold is called QMP/Queen Most Purple.

While theyre probably gone. He also had the 1976 Peace Corp IBL Highland Guerrero. There was a few packs a couple days ago. 70-100+ days flowering.

Was said to be crossed with Narrow Leaf Lebanese Hashplant in the late 60s/70s, and is a farmed/worked drug line, and expresses many LHP charistics.

Is also pure Garlic, and Onions, and is thought to be in the genetics of Garlic Bud, and G13. Genetic testing is planned in the future.

Coastal also has a Highland Columbian x Puna Butter cross

Huge fucking plant. Woah. 18 feet tall+

https://www.instagram.com/p/BP834JTAxim/?tagged=coastalseeds
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
And for a suggestion to look at, and you may already know.

You Know Who has 2 Sativa Dominant Punta Rojo crosses, and the Male is the Punta Rojo. Also had Indica crosses.
I inquired about The One x Punto Rojo, hoping the Punto Rojo may have come from an old BOEL stash via Coots. The male came from CBG seed, and as of a couple months ago the male and its progeny were untested. That's not breeding. I'll let someone else be the guinea pig. Besides, I'm looking for a pure sativa experience here, not interested in Indica hybrids.
 

CannaFish

Active member
The plants are looking sweet Marcus. Keep up the good work. #6 and #1 still stand out to me. Are you able to light dep them at all to induce flowering?

If you are contemplating topping vs bending and training... I don't how much of a difference it makes, and considering the climate... topping seems to remove some hormones and delay flowering a bit.

That's strange about the broadleaf popping up. I'm scratching my head. One guy on icm had an indica expression in punto rojo that tested on phylos as skunk???
It was questionable since he got seeds from a secondary source, but not looking good either way.

The punto rojo mom had very thin leaves and the mangobiche stud had slightly broader blades. I didn't see anything like that in the offspring that I ;)tested;) cough swami cough. I would vote for an indica expression vs stray pollen scenario.
 
Last edited:

59lespaul

Member
Don't know if it makes a difference but what little I know Sk has Columbian Red/Gold in it, so it may seem logical that the Phylos may have some matching genetics???? Just a thought.
Might make it more credible that they do have some matching genes?

I myself would not top them, but I would train/bend them like a vine, and will really increase yield.
 
Last edited:

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
I myself would not top them, but I would train/bend them like a vine, and will really increase yield.
Apical buds on single cola dominant plants are a real thing of beauty. Bending parallel to the light source maximizes light to additional bud sites. Wonder what a good La Nina or Doors cross would be like?

Aloha
M
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
The punto rojo mom had very thin leaves and the mangobiche stud had slightly broader blades. I didn't see anything like that in the offspring that I ;)tested;) cough swami cough.
Hey Fish! I lol'd at that! I don't have a method of light deprivation for these plants but my intent is to use these seed plants only to produce cuts, which will be flowered indoors starting next month. I'll leave the seed plants outside until their cold, wet end sometime in October or November. Not enough time to finish the females but enough time for me to collect pollen from the males. So I'm not considering training them sideways, only in topping them so I can get more cuts for the cloner.

My goals with this grow are to grow pure Colombian sativas from rooted clones indoors and get some nice weed, and hopefully find a 100% sativa stud. For some reason the seed that I label plant #1 in my pheno hunts turns out to be the keeper male. It happened with my Angel's Breathe grow, my Grail Widow grow, and hopefully, next with my Colombian sativa grow.
PRM #1 looks to be a male, so until further notice PRM#1 is the Stallion Who Will Mount the World. :)

Wonder what a good La Nina or Doors cross would be like?
Me too. I think a lot of strains would benefit from a cross to a nice Punto Rojo (or other 100% sativa) male.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Since there's been some discussion about crosses with a Punto Rojo male, here's some interesting information about a GG#4 x Punto Rojo cross. There's a thread on IC Mag started by a Dominican dude in New England where he grew some NYC Haze from a cut that originated out of Miami. I never had a chance to meet him or smoke the piff he grew, but I did talk with him a couple times. I grabbed the picture below from that thread. It's the dried bud from his piff in the center, with two different GG#4 x Punto Rojo buds on either side. I believe a PR male was used in the cross, opposite of how it's labelled in the photo. Look what the Punto Rojo did to the GG#4 bud structure! The one on the right is one of the most beautiful dried nugs I've seen with those calyxes stacked like wheat!



Here's the catch: he told me the cross totally killed the potency of the GG#4, and that the weed sucked from both plants. That's why I'm really skeptical about Swami's, or anyone else's, PR crosses until I see good grow reports.
 
Last edited:

PlantManBee

Active member
I love testing Xs from very diverse gene pools. I wouldn't rule out the X until F2s are grown out, though I realize today's constraints make that unlikely for most. It's even more true for F3 generation plants, and even less likely to be sifted through.

Breeding for consistency is great, and F1 plants are great for this reason. But looking through "sports", the outliers, is where the "new" stuff is found IMO and E.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
PMB, I agree with everything you said. However, if the F1s were closer to what you were looking for in a cross, then wouldn't that improve the frequency and quality of plants with the traits you seek when you sort through F2s and F3s?
 
The plants are looking sweet Marcus. Keep up the good work. #6 and #1 still stand out to me. Are you able to light dep them at all to induce flowering?

If you are contemplating topping vs bending and training... I don't how much of a difference it makes, and considering the climate... topping seems to remove some hormones and delay flowering a bit.

That's strange about the broadleaf popping up. I'm scratching my head. One guy on icm had an indica expression in punto rojo that tested on phylos as skunk???
It was questionable since he got seeds from a secondary source, but not looking good either way.

The punto rojo mom had very thin leaves and the mangobiche stud had slightly broader blades. I didn't see anything like that in the offspring that I ;)tested;) cough swami cough. I would vote for an indica expression vs stray pollen scenario.

CBG's PR is a hybrid line. I think they fixed it with a Panama male (Ace's Princess line?) That is where you might get that leaf from.
Does anyone know much about Underground's '72 gold?
 

CannaFish

Active member
Greetings Vlad,

Punto Rojo doesn't knowingly contain Panama. Maybe you are thinking of Punta Rosa from CBG? That's panama x punto rojo.

This is what I've read about the CBG punto rojo being a hybrid between 2 punto rojo lines... mother from Santa Marta region and stud from Tolima.

CannaBioGen said:
Nice to have you back

Well you know we like genetics more than names and to listen to what they talk :) A pleasure to be able to share my passion too

Not, havent worked this time the JBM but coming from France I can figure out about the selections as Ive tried here a french mom not too long ago. I would say that with the years this lady is been getting fatter and better yielder upon my eyes as I had worked it long ago and had also other thiner phenos and harsh smokes very often in the lots. Its natural decision to select for yield but we we must keep an eye on smoke quality too and never miss that

The Punto Rojo is, lets say, an PR f1, between different Punto Rojos, a present one from north Sta Marta range and an older male shared by Nachillo which cme some years ago from Tolima we believe. There are different expresions in it, different flavours and aromas I thought were of great interest too. Is not the electrical version, is more the purple highland of PR it has a very nice psicoactive effect although more relaxed like some lowlands. I dont discharge to keep on working it longer or add another pr with the time. Worked these years some much more electric ones too but so unstable in sex issues

Very strong mold resistance, even stronger than Guatemalas growing aside

Best vibes
kaiki

"PR is different story....research made me grow different PR lots and sources, more purple highlands to green ones. Some earlier test made a more phenotipically PR plants but very nervious effect too, but not as close to the psicoactivity side and flavours I was looking for.

Northern Sta Marta Punto Rojo used here were taller plants, from dark green to purples or red leaves and so rich aromas I was so interested in even effect was so funny, quite but psico-funny. As you remember Bigherb, the Punto Rojo male side came from Tolima, more central part of the country. Nachillo had just this male and I tested it with Panama (Punta Rosa) and with Sta Marta PR among other lines. Aromas transmited by this male side go more to wallnuts, spicy and bit sweet it seemed.

Aromas from present PR offer are more complex, peppery, earthy, incence and effect is more mellow and those aromas are so colombianos. I decided to release this PR F1 at the end"

"Special thanks again to all the friends who have helped us to find the way of red, special mention to Wendy and her friends from Sta Marta and Nachillo for your help and good work :cool:
"
"Cultivated about 4-5 different punto rojo lots from different areas, mountains and valleys. The one that I liked most was that of Sta Marta for its effect, aromas and sexual firmness. For male friend Nachillo had a lonely male for some time and we crossed it with the female of Santa Marta, say a type of F1 between punto rojos, looking for vigor and gather maximum number of alleles and restore what you can of the best traits and the rest. There is still some variation and the line, as I explained and I am convinced, has a good margin for improvement through selection. As with the Mangobiche and in his case with other mangobiches, I would like to get more Punto Rojos available in the future if I find something interesting to add ... in short, professional curiosity and longing for a line that I appreciated and missed."
 
Last edited:
Top